(UK) Knife amnesty nets 17,700 weapons

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Don't come to Suffolk if you don't want to get stabbed. There's a bunch of crazy US servicemembers with knives running around here.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=144&article=37920

By Ben Murray, Stars and Stripes
UK weekly edition, Wednesday, June 14, 2006

RAF MILDENHALL — Thousands of knives have been handed in to authorities across England since a highly visible campaign was launched May 24 to reduce knife-related crimes. None of those knives came from the local U.S. bases.

The five-week knife amnesty allows citizens to turn knives and edged weapons over to police without fear of prosecution, as some U.S. cities do with handguns.

At the local American bases, where Ministry of Defence police have put out red bins for knife collection, so far not a single blade has been turned in, said Mildenhall MOD community liaison officer Police Constable Paul Glover.

In contrast, in the first week of the nationwide program, 84 knives were turned over in Suffolk County, home to RAFs Lakenheath and Mildenhall, mostly in the form of “domestic” or kitchen knives, according to police.

Next door in Norfolk County, 505 were given to police by June 1, and Cambridgeshire authorities collected 212 in the first seven days of the amnesty.

The low visibility of the on-base collection points — a single red garbage bin has been set at the main gate of both Lakenheath and Mildenhall — might have something to do with it, he said.

Other reasons for low participation, community members said, are that Americans know little about knife-carrying laws in England, and generally don’t think of knives as a major threat.

“Being American probably does that to you,” said Kristi Jensen, an employee at The Spanish Gift Shop at RAF Mildenhall. Raised in a culture where gun crime is considered the most pervasive mortal threat, Jensen and fellow employee Kelly Carpenter said they just don’t view knives with the same eye as many English citizens.

Even Tech. Sgt. Joe Aylsworth from RAF Lakenheath, who has two children in British high schools, said knife crime isn’t an overwhelming concern for his family.

Aylsworth said his kids realize most of the kids at their school carry knives.

“They realize kids get picked on, so they kind of feel they need that,” he said.

Local residents may draw comfort from the fact that, as a largely rural area bordered by bigger towns, knife crime in the immediate area is low.

Glover said he has “not known any” stabbing or slashing incidents to have occurred at Lakenheath or Mildenhall in recent years.

But that’s not the case everywhere in Britain, where highly restrictive gun laws make knives, swords and bladed weapons prevalent in violent crime. Those weapons are used in close to 30 percent of the nation’s homicides.

Firearms, by contrast, were used in 8 percent of homicides in the 2004/2005 period covered by a recent crime report generated by the government’s Home Office.

Knives also have been used in the recent spate of fatal stabbings that hit the country in the past month, which have helped renew calls for government action.

Back on the American bases, Aylsworth, Carpenter and Jensen all said they have knives in their homes that would be illegal to carry in public in Britain, though they didn’t plan to hand them in. In England, it’s legal to keep blades of most lengths in your home or business, but illegal to take them out in public.

Aylsworth, however, said he has at least partially adopted the British outlook on knives and blades, and views the antique swords he has in his house in that light.

“I almost think of them now as if I had guns in the house,” he said.


What’s illegal when it comes to knives


When it comes to knowing the laws concerning carrying a knife in England, there’s one good rule of thumb you can use, said Ministry of Defence Police Constable Paul Glover: “Nobody should have a knife with them in a public place.”

That being said, there are exceptions, Glover said. The only knife you can legally carry with you in public is a folding knife with a blade of less than three inches long, such as many Swiss army knives, he said.

Knives with locking blades, those with three-inch or longer or serrated blades, even multi-tools with locking blades, all are technically illegal outside of your home, Glover said.

Larger blades, such as decorative swords and some martial arts equipment, are also illegal to bring out in public, he said, noting one major caveat: Under English statute, bases such as RAFs Mildenhall and Lakenheath are not considered “public.”

It’s also on those bases that servicemembers can buy large, unsharpened swords and razor-sharp hunting and utility knives with blades running out to 3.75 inches — a fact that doesn’t sit well with MOD police.

“We don’t think they should be sold on base,” Glover said. Other no-nos: mace, brass knuckles, throwing stars, batons, butterfly knives and disguised blades. All are considered offensive weapons and illegal wherever they are in England.

The only excuses for having a knife on you in public is if you need it to perform your job, Glover said.

“If you’ve got no reason to have it, you’re committing an offense,” he said.

— Ben Murray
 
Just to give you an example of the situation here, with laws prohibiting the carrying of blades that are over 3" long and not on a folding knife:

Hypothetical situation
I'm carrying my S&W HRT Bootknife, walking back from the pub. Along the way I am accosted by a group of youths intent on mugging and beating me, I am backed into a corner and attacked. To defend myself, I manage to draw my bootknife and fight off the attackers, who decide to run off when faced with an armed target. In the fight, I manage to wound two of the attackers.

The Police are called, when they turn up I am arrested for 'Carrying an offensive weapon' and 'Assault with a deadly weapon'. The Police also round up the muggers, and arrest them.

Two of the muggers are under 18 (Which is often the case here in the U.K), so are let off with community service and maybe a month in juvenile prison. The others, get away with maybe 6 months in jail, if any at all on account of injuries sustained.

I get maximum 2 years for carrying the knife (Soon to be 5 years if John Reid gets his way), and an assault leading to actual bodily harm comes with a 5 year prison sentence.

Which means a potential 5 year jail sentence for the victim of a mugging.

Think that the Police/Prosecution/Jury will be sympathetic to the fact that you were defending yourself? Hah! Only if you were unarmed! They will see you as a dangerous individual, willing to resort to lethal force, using a 'deadly weapon'.
 
I'm carrying my S&W HRT Bootknife, walking back from the pub. Along the way I am accosted by a group of youths intent on mugging and beating me, I am backed into a corner and attacked. To defend myself, I manage to draw my bootknife and fight off the attackers, who decide to run off when faced with an armed target. In the fight, I manage to wound two of the attackers.

The Police are called, when they turn up I am arrested for 'Carrying an offensive weapon' and 'Assault with a deadly weapon'. The Police also round up the muggers, and arrest them.

Two of the muggers are under 18 (Which is often the case here in the U.K), so are let off with community service and maybe a month in juvenile prison. The others, get away with maybe 6 months in jail, if any at all on account of injuries sustained.

I get maximum 2 years for carrying the knife (Soon to be 5 years if John Reid gets his way), and an assault leading to actual bodily harm comes with a 5 year prison sentence.

Which means a potential 5 year jail sentence for the victim of a mugging.

Think that the Police/Prosecution/Jury will be sympathetic to the fact that you were defending yourself? Hah! Only if you were unarmed! They will see you as a dangerous individual, willing to resort to lethal force, using a 'deadly weapon'.

Of course, the reason why its hypothetical is because its wrong. Self defence, even with an illegally held weapon, is not illegal.
 
I guess people think that one can't be killed with a knife that's 3" or less?? The 9/11 hijackers used box cutters for crying out loud!! What's the exposed blade length on those?? may 1.5"?? All in all, this is just a bunch of "feelgood" legislation and nonsense. I guess the UK will outlaw kung fu fighting next?? Judo?? Every other martial art/ sport?? Every Judoka KNOWS that "Judo" means "the gentle way" so it can't be deadly, can it?? :scrutiny: :banghead:
 
agricola Of course, the reason why its hypothetical is because its wrong. Self defence, even with an illegally held weapon, is not illegal.

Just what, exactly, is the rationale behind that? Are you saying that if I am out on the street with a prohibited object, and use said object in self defense it's all perfectly legal?
 
Cromlech,

Just what, exactly, is the rationale behind that? Are you saying that if I am out on the street with a prohibited object, and use said object in self defense it's all perfectly legal?

Basically yes. The status of the weapon wouldnt change (so you would still get charged with having an offensive weapon or having a pointed or bladed article) but using it to defend yourself wouldnt be illegal.
 
Ok, agricola, I understand now.

I was under the (mistaken) impression that you were implying that no charges would be made at all.

So whether someone wounded the muggers with his fists, or with a blade, it's still just legal self-defense?
 
Aylsworth, however, said he has at least partially adopted the British outlook on knives and blades, and views the antique swords he has in his house in that light.

“I almost think of them now as if I had guns in the house,” he said.
*sigh*
 
I'm one of the British-loving Americans who'd like to know how the heck this all happened Over There? You Brits were always tough as they come, and Americans in general have a deep respect and fondness for your culture. What caused this mass transformation in so short a time? Anyone?
 
Britian has been overrun by criminals from other nations coming to prey on their weak and unarmed citiznes, that's what happened.

There are two possible responses to the invasion of the Nigerians, Gypsies, and other unwanted sorts in England.

1) Liberalize gun laws and make citizens able to carry and own weapons a la the United States. This would have a significant deterrant on crime. Brits are generally responsible, intelligent law abiding folks who should have the ability to defend themselves. The criminal types would stop preying on the citizens;

OR

2) Outlaw guns and still have 8% of your homicides from gunshots and get surprised (but I thought those were all turned in...!). Next get surprised that 30% of homicides are knife related. Outlaw knives and get surprised that homicides haven't declined. What's next, pointed sticks and rocks??


I don't wish anything bad on the Brits, but it's an experiment that is destined to fail and leave behind a lot of innocent Brit victims.
 
I can hear Winston Churchill now...."We will fight them on the beaches.....by throwing sand in their faces...."

Oh, and how long will it be until teeth are outlawed? They're sharp, they're pointy, someone can bite you with them. Sigh.


:rolleyes:
 
Has Europe's forefathers learned anything in the last....oh maybe 60 years or so.

V for victory...no thats not it (history is not being learned)....V for Vendetta....no its just a movie......V for Valor....no not anymore.........oh this is it...

V for Victim

Good Luck England....you will need it.
 
I reference The Simpsons, Treehouse Of Horror II, the episode with Homer buying the Monkey's Paw and getting wishes? Lisa wishes for world peace. Everybody destroys their weapons... then the aliens land...!

Kang and Kodos: People of Earth! We come to you in the spirit of hostility and menace!
Kang and Kodos: Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!

The aliens enslave the world with their weapons: A slingshot and a club! Finally, somebody shows up with a board with a nail in it and drives the aliens off of Earth...


Kodos: It looks like the Earthlings won.
Kang: Did they? Right now they have a board with a nail in it. But they won't stop there. Soon they will make bigger boards with bigger nails until they make a board with a nail in it so big it will destroy them all!
 
I suppose the "knife ban" isn't as bad as the "alarmists" say? Tell me what part of putting out bins for knives, or only outlawing "assault knives" is good? You say we are all on a long rant w/o logic or basis in fact ... the part of it that is true merits every last bit of this rant. Hearing people/Brits say that nothing has changed or the law only affects "some" knives just goes to show how far gone people are. I think if you listen to what is being said in these "unreasoned rants" you might learn a thing or two about liberty.

Or ... maybe this just illustrates how Hitler was able to take all of Europe and Scandanavia in such a short period of time. People who won't take up arms ALWAYS end up having to be rescues by people who WILL. The iron-men in England who faced off alone against Hitler are rolling over in their graves.
 
The amnesty is entirely optional. You can own what you like, it can be 8 foot long and serrated, you just can't carry it on the streets. Now there might be an issue there, but it seems to me (and I expect future posters to carry on in this vein because they don't read the whole thread) that people are somehow equating amnesty with ban. And that isn't correct.
 
I do appreciate your reply. You are in England and I am not. I can only say that I'm concerned about what I'm hearing ...

The following is my pocket knife. It is not carried for defence but for beef, chicken, pork, and unopened packages. How would a fine tool like this fit into Brittish society? All I'm trying to figure out is, is the possession of a blade (in public) a crime or isn't it?

BM12800S[1].jpg


We also have knife laws here in the states so it's not like we are unfamiliar with loss of liberty [far from it], but it would be most disturbing to think that you Britts can't even carry a good quality pocket knives.
 
In the area I lived in this knife

vi07vi07a.jpg


http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Product.htm?category=originalswissarmyknives&product=54191&

which only has a 2" (2 Inch) blade, if you were caught in posession of one by police in 2000-2005 you would have gotten an Instant 6 months in Prison.

didn't matter what size it was, you still got a minumum of 6 months in prison even thought the Law specificaly stated that you were allowed one with a blade of under 4".
it all stared with the 6 month sentance for a Locking Blade knife, then it just got more absurd from there.

BTW now that i'm back in the USA this is my All-around General use Knife atm.

KER1650ST.jpg

Kershaw Vapor II (Serrated) 3½" Locking Blade
 
Zedicus, where did you live?

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

A loose guide from a big UK knife website, note the following:

"The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you may carry a knife with a blade length of 3.0" or less so long as it is capable of folding. That means no fixed blade knives. But use your loaf - a knife has no place at a football match, in a pub, nightclub or school and becomes an offensive weapon in these circumstances in just the same way as a screwdriver, or any other innanimate tool."

Now I believe there may be a slight legal gray area with regard to locking folders, but your average non-locking Swiss Army knife is not going to get you 6 months in jail, unless I am severely misinformed.

Now speaking of being misinformed, although I was aware of restrictions on switch blades and the like (mirrored by many US states) I was not aware that there are supposedly restrictions on any knife deemed suitable for combat, at least the Knives Act (1997) is supposed to have done so according to that same link. But then again a quick perusal of their stock yields kukri's, bowie's, tanto's and so on.
 
Whatsurprises me is that obviuosly nobody understood the core of this story. The brits are actually giving an amnesty to folks to hand in something THEY OWN LEGALLY. And they get 17,000 knives. And those folks could have kept them legally. Really makes me wonder how those british brains work. They should have an amnesty for handing over their TV sets next.
 
Zedicus, where did you live?

I won't go into specifics, but the area was within the Strathclyde District Police Jurisdiction.
(More like Gestapo than Police to be bluntly honest)

From 2000 on the "Minimum Sentence" for being in Possession of a Knife (any length) or any other item deemed by the PC as an "Offensive Weapon" (which was 100% up to the Arresting PC's "Interpretation") was 6 months in prison.

In 2004 One poor SOB actually got 6 months after being arrested in a "Random Street Corner search" for being in possession of a "Belt" which he was wearing at the time. (I Kid you not, in fact I still have the newspaper article of that one packed away someplace)

[Edit]Found a Scan of that Article that I had on CD, here it is[/Edit]

fubaruk2mr.jpg
 
The amnesty is entirely optional. You can own what you like, it can be 8 foot long and serrated, you just can't carry it on the streets. Now there might be an issue there, but it seems to me (and I expect future posters to carry on in this vein because they don't read the whole thread) that people are somehow equating amnesty with ban. And that isn't correct.

Why an "amnesty" for something that's not illegal?

These types of events are prelude to things such as registrations, bans, etc.

Next I bet they'll start requiring serial numbers on knives! HA!
 
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