Unbelievable, dumb cleaning mistake - kills friend

[JohnKSa]

Lack of blood isn't surprising from an entrance wound, especially with someone wearing two layers of clothing and only being able to see the victim for about 4 seconds after impact. If the heart was hit, that would reduce or eliminate blood pressure almost immediately, which would lead to reduced bleeding.

Lack of muzzle flash doesn't mean anything. Video cameras do not have persistence of vision that is similar to humans so things can happen in between the frames and not show on the video. The human eye tends to hold images for a short time, so even very short events will show up in human vision, but video cameras tend to actually take instantaneous snapshots and then string them together. If something happens between the snapshots, the video won't show it.

Both the shooter and the victim show startle responses that seem pretty genuine.

But the point made above is really what matters. Whether the video is real or fake, the lesson is real.

 

[TTv2]

It's always with semi autos because the low information gun owner seems to think that just removing the magazine means the gun is unloaded. Is racking the slide back after taking the mag out to make sure it's clear so difficult?

I swear, the failure to rack the slide back should be a PSA commercial that airs during sports games cuz, let's face it, that's the audience that's going to make these stupid, deadly mistakes. If Tiger Woods and other athletes take part in the "Rack it Back" campaign it would be effective.

 

[FL-NC]

I have seen many accidents overseas by incompetent LE/ mil personnel. Several have resulted in injuries, but I never saw one result in a fatality.

 

[wiscoaster]

Totally solo operation and no live ammo for the gun being cleaned even on the same floor. I have dummy rounds in each caliber for post-cleaning function tests.

 

[jmorris]

Definitely looks stupid. Stupid enough to in fact be suspect for fake. The fellows left shirt sleeve (bottom right almost obscured by the logo, 1:14-1:15), reacts in time with what would be a shot and even if they threw in dropping the gun as part of the act, most folks wouldn’t also think of throwing their cell phone on the floor.

It’s probably real, I am not surprised at how stupid people are anymore. I just don’t allow them around me with firearms. Too bad there is nothing I can do except try and avoid them when driving.

 

[JohnKSa]

It's always with semi autos because the low information gun owner seems to think that just removing the magazine means the gun is unloaded. Is racking the slide back after taking the mag out to make sure it's clear so difficult?

Not always. I know of at least one unintentional discharge that resulted from a live round sticking in a revolver cylinder. The person handling the gun dumped the cylinder using gravity only and one round didn't fall out. The person closed the cylinder without checking carefully enough to see the live round remaining and intentionally dryfired, setting off the live round.

Is it so hard to use the ejector rod to dump the rounds? No. But in this case it was not done.
Is it so hard to check carefully after dumping the rounds to see that the cylinder is empty? Not at all. But in this case it was not done.

Fortunately the gun was not pointed at anything important and so there were no injuries and not even any significant damage.

There is an "always". It's always with a careless person. Someone who doesn't check carefully enough to see that the gun is unloaded. Someone who picks up and handles a gun without knowing what they're doing. Someone who points a gun at something they shouldn't. Someone who pulls the trigger when they shouldn't.

Why is it important? Because if we convince ourselves that we've picked equipment that is "careless proof" it gives us a false sense of security.

When we handle a firearm, we have to be careful. Doesn't matter what kind of firearm it is, how much we know, how "safe" the gun is, or how often we've done it before safely. All it takes is some careless thrown into the mix and things can get very ugly.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Not always. I know of at least one unintentional discharge that resulted from a live round sticking in a revolver cylinder. The person handling the gun dumped the cylinder using gravity only and one round didn't fall out. The person closed the cylinder without checking carefully enough to see the live round remaining and intentionally dryfired, setting off the live round.

Masaad Ayoob wrote a column about the time he did exactly what you're describing

 

[Alex Clayton]

Masaad Ayoob wrote a column about the time he did exactly what you're describing

One writer, may have been Mass, told the tale of a fellow Cop who did that with his wheel gun. Came home to find his Wife watching Lawrence Welk show. Made a point of saying how much he hated that show, pulled his duty gun out, dumped the ammo into his hand. Then without looking swung cylinder closed and pointed at the TV and shot a hole in his TV. When I read it I was kind of surprised the Cop who did it was man enough to admit he did what he did since you know he had to have been razed badly at work for that one for a good while.

 

[scaatylobo]

Clean my guns ALONE !.

But when I was LEO, it could be a group on the range and doing so at same time.

NO AMMUNITION in that area ---- period !.

 

[reddog81]

I don’t see how this was a “cleaning” mistake. The guy inserted a loaded magazine into a functional firearm, chambered a round and then pulled the trigger. The fact that he had previously been cleaning the firearm is irrelevant.

I clean guns in the same room as ammo all the time. It's actually pretty easy to not chamber a round and then pull the trigger. Guns being cleaned don’t magically become loaded and cook off rounds.

Do people drain all the fuel from their vehicles before doing in oil change? What if you accidentally decided to get in the car and go for a drive during the middle of the oil change?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

The problem is that a lot of people that deal with guns all the time become complacent. I have never had a problem with cleaning a gun with ammo in the same room or even where I am doing the cleaning.
I never load a gun unless it’s pointed in a safe direction, that also includes just inserting a loaded magazine.
I never disassembled a firearm without checking the chamber first, no matter what gun it is.
It’s a shame that stupid things like this happen.

 

[Hartkopf]

I don’t see how this was a “cleaning” mistake. The guy inserted a loaded magazine into a functional firearm, chambered a round and then pulled the trigger. The fact that he had previously been cleaning the firearm is irrelevant.

I clean guns in the same room as ammo all the time. It's actually pretty easy to not chamber a round and then pull the trigger. Guns being cleaned don’t magically become loaded and cook off rounds.

Do people drain all the fuel from their vehicles before doing in oil change? What if you accidentally decided to get in the car and go for a drive during the middle of the oil change?

The issue is function checking with a cleaning mindset and not a firearms mindset. Ammo near by is fine if you never screw up, which most people wouldn’t. It just adds a layer of safety to leave ammo in another room.

 

[entropy]

I don't object to cleaning guns with other people around. I did it all the time in the Army.

However, as someone else already said I unload the gun that I'm cleaning in one room and I clean it in another (actually the kitchen table).

When I'm done cleaning it I take it back to the room I unloaded it in, reload it and holster it.

Other than that, the four rules apply

Yup. As the Armorer, I enforced the Four Rules by having the soldier (even if they outranked me) open the weapon and show me the clear chamber. (It isn't just for parade formations, ya know.) I also did so when I was a range NCO, before we even left the range. (No Brass, No Ammo!) then I'd check it when they turned it in. Some thought it excessive. Our BN CO agreed with me, so I'd tell them to talk to him about it.

Not always. I know of at least one unintentional discharge that resulted from a live round sticking in a revolver cylinder. The person handling the gun dumped the cylinder using gravity only and one round didn't fall out. The person closed the cylinder without checking carefully enough to see the live round remaining and intentionally dryfired, setting off the live round.

Wouldn't it either slip under the star if truly stuck in the chamber, thus jamming the revolver upon attempting to close it, or if it did slide out with the rest but somehow did not fall free of the gun, wouldn't it stay sticking out, necessitating pushing it back into the chamber before closing?

The only way I could imagine this happening is if the rim was stuck (as in corroded to ,or superglued to) the edge, and only the edge of the star.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Was it an accident? He put the magazine in and then shot.

 

[dh1633pm]

Just stupid.

 

[Kleanbore]

if it did slide out with the rest but somehow did not fall free of the gun, wouldn't it stay sticking out, necessitating pushing it back into the chamber before closing?

Not necessarily.

 

[entropy]

True it might slide back down when the gun was tipped forward again, but you'd think one would notice that.....

As for the video, the victim's reaction is worthy of an Oscar. Instinct is to put the hands on the injury. (BTDT) He acts more like he was electrocuted. But as Trunk Monkey said, real or staged, the lesson is real.

 

[JohnKSa]

Wouldn't it either slip under the star if truly stuck in the chamber, thus jamming the revolver upon attempting to close it, or if it did slide out with the rest but somehow did not fall free of the gun, wouldn't it stay sticking out, necessitating pushing it back into the chamber before closing?

The person handling the gun dumped the cylinder using gravity only...
...
Is it so hard to use the ejector rod to dump the rounds? No. But in this case it was not done.

The person opened the cylinder and dumped the rounds using gravity only.

5 rounds fell free under the force of gravity, one did not move at all--it stayed in place.

 

[Walkalong]

But the point made above is really what matters. Whether the video is real or fake, the lesson is real.

Indeed.

 

[Walkalong]

"Unloaded" guns are no joke, they are very dangerous, because so many times, they're not. Rule # 1 applies.

Hal Holbrook as Mark Twain on unloaded guns. I got to see him in Birmingham around 1973.

 

[cslinger]

Lots of folks in the thread talk about “complacency” I would argue that is pure unadulterated negligence and or stupidity.

I have shot and been around firearms for a long time. I have had “complacent” moments. Moments where I COULD have put a round in the floor or whatnot. I have NEVER had a moment where I could have plugged a human. I don’t point guns at ceilings or floors or walls where the round could go into another occupied room and I sure as sh@& don’t point my guns at family or friends and “hahah” pull the trigger.

Point is that was NOT complacency that was negligence.

 

[WheelGunMan]

Lots of folks in the thread talk about “complacency” I would argue that is pure unadulterated negligence and or stupidity.

I have shot and been around firearms for a long time. I have had “complacent” moments. Moments where I COULD have put a round in the floor or whatnot. I have NEVER had a moment where I could have plugged a human. I don’t point guns at ceilings or floors or walls where the round could go into another occupied room and I sure as sh@& don’t point my guns at family or friends and “hahah” pull the trigger.

Point is that was NOT complacency that was negligence.

Agree... negligent stupidity summarizes it. You NEVER point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't intend to destroy...period!

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Lots of folks in the thread talk about “complacency” I would argue that is pure unadulterated negligence and or stupidity.

I have shot and been around firearms for a long time. I have had “complacent” moments. Moments where I COULD have put a round in the floor or whatnot. I have NEVER had a moment where I could have plugged a human. I don’t point guns at ceilings or floors or walls where the round could go into another occupied room and I sure as sh@& don’t point my guns at family or friends and “hahah” pull the trigger.

Point is that was NOT complacency that was negligence.

People that become complacent tend to be the ones that are negligent.
The two guys in the video were treating their guns like toys.

 

[Buckeye63]

When I clean my guns .. I have zero ammo in the room.... actually.. no mags either... I check the chamber .. 3 times every time...every time ...
I also clean them in the same room .. same table ..no TV on , no radio ... one gun in the room at a time .... I’m not armed when I clean a gun ...
I go overboard... but so far so good

 

[IdaD]

When I was about 12 I accidentally touched off a 22 in my bedroom that I had thought was empty. No real harm done but it sure scared me and in hindsight it was probably a very fortuitous accident. That video had so much stupid in it.