Underestimating the 12ga

[Sistema1927]

Only an idiot or a member of Congress, but I repeat myself, thinks that a 12 ga shotgun is not powerful enough for home defense. Or for just about anything else.

I would rather face a man with a rifle, any rifle, than a man with a shotgun within 50 feet.

 

[cdb1]

In my experience the people at ranges and gun stores that offer unsolicited advice are really obnoxious and invariably wrong. The bad advice is sometimes dangerous and could cause injury or death. I have no patience with those people, none, zero, zilch.

 

[LoonWulf]

lighting off that high brass out of something like a single shot Handy

U just gave me another reason to buy a backpacker......

 

[Hookeye]

90 slugs, all 3", from the bench, in 2 consecutive days.....trying to get a POS Mossberg 835 rifled to shoot (3.5" chamber....no 3.5" slugs then ).

Could not keep sabot stuff on 8.5x11 sheet at 50 yards.

First the rail didnt converge so ran out of vert adj on scope. Bent that ( removed scope first ) and after trying a couple brands, bought ten boxed of ww 3" fosters and got it to do OK ( after major leading and clean, then bore polish and test for needed foulers).

Couple little marks on shoulder. Some discoloration later but not horrible. Deep down in the joint it was very tender.

Shot my deer at 165 and 90 yards and got rid of that thing.

What an ordeal

 

[Hookeye]

Did gun shows. Member of a couple clubs.
Worked in a shop.

Never had anybody say a 12 ga was wuss.
Had many claim it was an elephant slayer of some sort.

Some folks dont know the diff between #4 shot and #4 buckshot. Think it the same LOL.

 

[Old Dog]

Then they were approached by a young guy (18-20y) who told them that the 12ga wasn’t a good home defense because it didn’t had enough power,

Yeah, uh, lost me at "young guy (18-20y)". I run those runts off before they can start with their unsolicited advice.

On a side note, many years ago I responded to a homicide where a guy had taken some full-house 00 to the face from about six or eight feet away. Once you've seen that, you can never un-see it. I'll take my chances with the rifle.

I would rather face a man with a rifle, any rifle, than a man with a shotgun within 50 feet.

Yep.

 

[LoonWulf]

Too much Call of Duty

See, now if they played Halo 1&2 they would know the power of a shotgun....and generally know how to use it.

 

[dh1633pm]

Ignorance runs supreme in some circles. One has only to experience a 12 ga to know it has a mighty bark. One sits next to the bed loaded with double oh. I know how to use it in that way, but I am actively seeking a trainer who can really show me how to put a shotgun to good use. All it's use. Not just defense, but how to shoot birds correctly, how to shoot trap, and how to shoot clays. Yes I know all the concepts, but want to know the right way. I met a Master Sergeant in the Air Force that took a class that I teach on firewalls who competed professionally with the shotgun. He was a fountain of information. Information without hands on, it just info. Side tracked a bit, but I do believe a shotgun makes a good home defense gun. Just hope I never need it. Ever.

 

[George P]

Ignorance runs supreme in some circles. One has only to experience a 12 ga to know it has a mighty bark. One sits next to the bed loaded with double oh. I know how to use it in that way, but I am actively seeking a trainer who can really show me how to put a shotgun to good use. All it's use. Not just defense, but how to shoot birds correctly, how to shoot trap, and how to shoot clays. Yes I know all the concepts, but want to know the right way. I met a Master Sergeant in the Air Force that took a class that I teach on firewalls who competed professionally with the shotgun. He was a fountain of information. Information without hands on, it just info. Side tracked a bit, but I do believe a shotgun makes a good home defense gun. Just hope I never need it. Ever.

Plenty of clay target places in NY State
https://www.claytargetsonline.com/new-york/
See if there is one near you; should be able to get some instruction regarding the clay games as well.

 

[dh1633pm]

Thanks George P. I do go to Vernon National once a month in central NY. Now I know of some more.

 

[billtool]

A shotgun wouldn't be my 1st choice for anything other than shooting small game on the run or fly. But they are versatile enough to use a variety of ammo and be acceptable in a lot of other roles. If a fellow could only have one gun to do everything with it would have to be a shotgun.

This last sentence.

 

[cota]

12ga is fine as a home defence tool, its lethality is governed by what you load it with slug is terminal and buckshot is the same. i suppose if your wanting some serious shot to use in a home defence tool, you could try and get some big TSS now expensive but lethal without question. Lets face it a box of TSS reloads for home defence would last you a life time.

 

[Oldschool shooter]

That's when I would have wanted my old 10 gauge SxS with 3 1/2" Mag loads. It was heavy at almost 10 lbs. Weighing double that would have been an eye opener.

 

[cdb1]

12ga is fine as a home defence tool, its lethality is governed by what you load it with slug is terminal and buckshot is the same. i suppose if your wanting some serious shot to use in a home defence tool, you could try and get some big TSS now expensive but lethal without question. Lets face it a box of TSS reloads for home defence would last you a life time.

The idea of getting a Browning Gold 10 gauge and loading it with #4 or 00 TSS buckshot has crossed my mind, especially if I could figure out how to add a magazine extension.

 

[billtool]

Yeah, uh, lost me at "young guy (18-20y)". I run those runts off before they can start with their unsolicited advice.

On a side note, many years ago I responded to a homicide where a guy had taken some full-house 00 to the face from about six or eight feet away. Once you've seen that, you can never un-see it. I'll take my chances with the rifle.
Yep.

It's my opinion that in the hands of a sort of trained homeowner with purpose (i.e. protecting children), a known reliable semi-automatic 12 or 20 ga. shotgun firing proven buckshot loads, is the most formidable home defense weapon on earth. One can go the "tactical" route or pull the plug on an Auto 5. Or use an old single shot Remington. Fact of the matter is that a pissed-off mother of a trembling Chihuahua, minimally trained regarding the use and care of a defensive shotgun, can repel virtually any attacker(s) if allowed minimal time to prepare for the conflict. Then she can go out and kill a deer or squirrel with the same gun and load. Or a bear if the crap really hits the fan.

 

[KsSkaEnthusiast]

The 12 gauge is probably the most venerable home defense tool in the world in all its iterations. I also fall into that category where I keep my stoeger m3500 with 1 3/4 oz 5 shot lead pheasant loads. Figure there aren't a whole lot of situations 6 shells of that cant handle and the added bonus is I get to use the gun that I hunt with and shoot every week, giving me full confidence in it and my ability to use it.

 

[tlynch]

Now I am also the nicest guy I know.

I said something similar to my wife, and she told me I should meet more people.

 

[EIB0879]

My Dad had a Rem model 11-48 as his duty shotgun when he was a State Trooper. He used it one time shooting an escaping felon in the butt after that felon had shot a County Deputy. He had a couple of pellets that the surgeon pulled out of the guy. He was a life long believer in 12 ga 00 buck.

 

[Conelrad]

We have a problem with feral dogs (yes dogs, not hogs) out our way.

Some are up to 90lbs!

The 590A1 has taken many without question, 00 reigns supreme.

Conelrad

 

[mokin]

Do slugs recoil more than the same weight of birdshot at the same muzzle velocity? I suspect what makes target loads with an once and a quarter of birdshot lighter-recoiling is that they have less powder than the slugs. There are some pretty heavy-recoiling 2 1/4 ounce turkey loads, at 1200 fps. I bet they hit a lot harder than a typical 1 ounce slug at 1560 fps or even a 3" slug at 1700 fps. Back a few decades ago when I was a new adult, I had one of those turkey guns that I loaded with 18 pellets of 00 in a shell. I thought that made me a power. I would load my shells for trap the same way, with as much powder and shot as I could fit under the crimp. I don't know if I abused my shoulder or the Mossberg worse, but in the end it was the Mossberg that was loosest.

This brought to mind the time I decided to use up the stock of turkey ammunition I had been given in a three gun match. It was fun but I don't think I'll do it again.

 

[cdb1]

We have a problem with feral dogs (yes dogs, not hogs) out our way.

Some are up to 90lbs!

The 590A1 has taken many without question, 00 reigns supreme.

Conelrad

I believe it. When I was growing up we would get a pack of feral dogs that would start killing cattle. A concerted effort would be made to kill the pack and then a few years later another pack would morph. I’m much much more afraid of feral dogs than feral hogs.

 

[I6turbo]

I believe it. When I was growing up we would get a pack of feral dogs that would start killing cattle. A concerted effort would be made to kill the pack and then a few years later another pack would morph. I’m much much more afraid of feral dogs than feral hogs.

Same with us, except they would start killing hogs. Usually you had to manage to kill at least one of the dogs to stop it.

 

[Ernie Bass]

U just gave me another reason to buy a backpacker......

I have quite a bit of shotguns having grown up with them. Bought one Backpack and have had so much fun with the 18" 4 1/2 lb gun. So easy to go anywhere. Liked it so much bought one with a 22" barrel. If the ammo shortage was not so bad, I would get one in 20ga and 410.

KISS

 

[Kleanbore]

I have quite a bit of shotguns having grown up with them. Bought one Backpack and have had so much fun with the 18" 4 1/2 lb gun. So easy to go anywhere. Liked it so much bought one with a 22" barrel. If the ammo shortage was not so bad, I would get one in 20 ga and 410.

I had an aunt who kept a single barrel .410 for protection, and a cousin who kept a 16 ga.

I would not choose a single shot for protection. My preference would be a Mossberg semi-auto 20.

If I still used shotguns for fun, I would love a 20 ga. Backpack. I had not known of them before.

 

[PWC]

How does a modified choke handle 00 and slugs? Good, OK, not well? Cylinder or imp cylinder would be better I know, but you shoot what you have. I've never had a reason to try before...now I'm thinking.....

Others have said it is possible to "shoot out" the choke, but I think that's improbable.