Utah: No More Gun Permits for Foreigners

[Desertdog]

Utah: No More Gun Permits for Foreigners
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RT8LBG0&show_article=1
Sep 26 12:35 PM US/Eastern


SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Utah has stopped issuing concealed-gun permits to foreigners because of the rising number of applicants and the difficulty of conducting background checks.
"Utah had become the state of choice for people who did not live in the United States but wanted to carry a gun in the country," said Richard Wyss, attorney at the Utah Bureau of Criminal Investigation. State authorities "became alarmed," he told lawmakers Tuesday.

About 1,000 citizens of other countries have permits that allow them to carry a concealed gun in Utah and 30 states that have an agreement with Utah. Most are Canadians; others are from countries including Japan, Switzerland, Aruba, Mongolia, Mexico and the Republic of Congo.

Since 1995, Utah has issued 92,000 permits, 30 percent to non-Utah residents. Applicants typically must show they attended a safety class. Even a blind North Dakota man has one.

Background checks on foreigners were weak because Utah was denied access to records in other countries, but permits were issued if applicants met other requirements, authorities said. Utah now won't renew or issue the permits unless it can do a thorough background check.

 

[eric.cartman]

Don't you need to be a Permanent Resident to get a CCW thought?

They make it sound as if you can mail an application from Poland, and get a permit.

Come on

 

[Cosmoline]

Most are Canadians; others are from countries including Japan, Switzerland, Aruba, Mongolia, Mexico and the Republic of Congo

I only see a valid concern with foreign nationals from countries that have no extradition treaty with us or have a record of refusing to hand over their citizens for trial here. Also, I can't see us having an easy time enforcing a bench warrant in the Congo! LOL But Switzerland, Canada, Mexico and the like should be OK. Maybe have the foreigner agree not to fight any extradition requests as part of the licensing process.

 

[eric.cartman]

Also, to get a Green Card (become a permanent resident) you have to pass a BG check wayyyyy more extensive than NICS. Believe me, i know.

So this doesn't make any sense.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Don't you need to be a Permanent Resident to get a CCW thought?

Nope.

They make it sound as if you can mail an application from Poland, and get a permit.

Yep, as long as you met all the requirements for the State of Utah, which doesn't include resident status.

 

[MD_Willington]

You have to pass a BG check with NLETS etcetera...

The National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (NLETS) is an information sharing system for state and local law enforcement agencies. It provides electronic messaging to allow information exchange between state, local, and federal agencies and support services to justice-related computer programs. The network is a non-profit organization owned and operation by the states and funded by membership dues.

The network operates using a relay system - each state has an interface to the network, and all agencies within the state operate through this portal. The federal and international components operate very similarly. Users include all U.S. states and territories, Federal agencies with a justice mission, and certain international agencies. The primary operational site for the network is housed in the Arizona Department of Public Safety, with a backup at the Idaho State Policy.

Information exchange is voluntary and includes everything from motor vehicle and driver's data, Canadian 'Hot File' records, and INS databases to state criminal history records. Nearly 90 million messages are sent each month.

Also, there as far as Canada goes there are several courses you must pass to get a one of the varying types of licenses.

It is not hard for a .gov agency to get an RCMP background check either, you fill out a waiver that allows the .gov agency have access to your background.

Helps when you have a family member as a RCMP officer, that's how I got my Canadian BG check done in 2002...

I had considered getting a UT permit...

 

[Telperion]

Does the Utah BCI have the legal authority to refuse processing for an entire class of applicants?

 

[Andrewsky]

It's outrageous that we have a permit system.

If a foreign national wants to hurt somebody, he isn't going to bother with the stupid permit.

 

[Car Knocker]

As I recall, the federal Gun-Free School Zone exception for CCW permit holders is predicated on the state running a background check. I'd think that if Utah issued some permits without the background check, it would place that exemption in doubt - much along the lines of the feds disallowing the use of a CCW to circumvent the Brady check by some states because a background check wasn't made when the permit was issued. If that were the case, I'd be less concerned about non-U.S. citizens/legal residents being able to procure a Utah permit than I would be about an infringement on the places a citizen/legal resident can legally carry.

Does the Utah BCI have the legal authority to refuse processing for an entire class of applicants?

The requirements for issuance of a permit is that a person not have been convicted of a felony, drug offence, etc. U.C.A. 53-5-704 It would be hard to do this without running a background check or to insure the quality of a foreign background check. The Utah CFP law doesn't state that BCI must grant foreigners a permit - the term "applicant" is used - but I imagine that a foreigner could sue BCI for not issuing a permit. I think that the Legislature would step in and amend the present law to specifically exclude foreign applicants and, possibly, make other changes that citizens/legal residents might find onerous.

 

[Roccobro]

As of right now UT is charging and running BG checks on applicants. A family member just applied last week and the BG charges (state and fed) was 3x the fingerprints and photo costs!

I figured if they didn't pass the BG check, they don't get issued a permit. Come from a NICS friendly country? CHL Approved!

Justin

 

[Car Knocker]

What Will it Cost to Apply?

A non-refundable fee of $65.25 must be included with your application. This fee consists of $35.00 for application and permit processing and $30.25 charged by the F.B.I. to process your fingerprint cards. Please make checks and money orders payable to the "Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification".

http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFNewApp.html

 

[mp510]

Background checks on foreigners were weak because Utah was denied access to records in other countries, but permits were issued if applicants met other requirements, authorities said. Utah now won't renew or issue the permits unless it can do a thorough background check.

It doesn't say "at all" but rather "unless it can do a thorough background check". Being outside Utah, or the United States for that matter should not make one exempt from needing to have a complete background check done like every other applicant.

 

[lacoochee]

Utah now won't renew or issue the permits unless it can do a thorough background check.

I'd like to point out the same sentence, it makes sense to do what they are doing, I am sure there are several countries of origin we might want to have as little as possible to do with. The ones where we can verify their backgrounds and lack of criminal, mental history, pass 'em out.

 

[eliphalet]

Until such countries have reciprocity with a Utah CCW why should they?
It become's impossible to do a proper back ground check on a non citizen therefore I agree with Utah's decision.

I know this is not popular on this forum, but is my personal view.

 

[JLStorm]

I dont see a problem with this either.

 

[combatantr2]

Im sure the 9/11 terrorist didnt have the concealed carry permits.

 

[SammyIamToday]

This change made me sad. It was always something I liked about Utah. That they trusted Canadians and others more than their own governments.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Im sure the 9/11 terrorist didnt have the concealed carry permits.

Right, because the only consideration we should make about any given decision is whether it could have effected the outcome of 9/11.

 

[Willis]

I live in Montana and I can not carry in Canada. I can not even transport my pistol through Canada to get to Alaska. 1989 was the last time I was in Canada and unless they change their laws, they will never get any more of my money. If Canada is going to treat us this way, why should we give them a permit to carry here. If we are not going to let the Canadians have a pirmit, then what country should we let carry? I say only a country that will let me get a permit in their contry. Can anyone tell me where that is? Thanks Utah but your should have never let them have the first one.

Willis

 

[Autolycus]

The Bill of Rights does not specify US citizens or the like. It is sad that we are throwing away what makes this country great to stop the evil outsiders from getting guns.

Freedom is dying in Utah.

 

[VARifleman]

The Bill of Rights does not specify US citizens or the like. It is sad that we are throwing away what makes this country great to stop the evil outsiders from getting guns.

Freedom is dying [strike]in Utah[/strike] everywhere.

Fixed it for you...

 

[Car Knocker]

Freedom is dying in Utah.

So, people from other countries should be exempt from the background checks that U.S. citizens/legal residents are required to pass to get a Utah permit?

 

[Correia]

Freedom is dying in Utah.

And I call bull on that, to a guy from friggin' Illinois.

Right now, my in state students are having to wait approximatly 100 days to get their permits because of the huge wait time, mostly because our BCI is swamped with out of state residents. We've become the defacto national CCW permit because of our reciprocity, ease of getting a permit, and lenient requirements.

We honor every other state's permit.

They're altering the permit issuance for non-US residents because of background check issues and potential conflict with the law, (and I think we're the only state that had that to begin with) and "freedom is dying"?

Captain Hyperbole strikes again.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I wonder...if a resident alien really wanted to get a permit, if he couldn't perhaps contact his own country's criminal records system and present his own records to BCI. Or at least, provide BCI with a way to contact his country's criminal records system (phone numbers, fax numbers, good times to call, etc.). It doesn't say that foreigners will no longer be issued permits; it says that they wont' receive permits if a background check cannot be conducted.

 

[Geronimo45]

has stopped issuing concealed-gun permits to foreigners because of the rising number of applicants

What? A government body is refusing to take your money?

And I thought Zardoz was weird.