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VIDEO: guy shoots himself in leg with 1911 drawing from serpa holster

Discussion in 'Handguns: Holsters and Accessories' started by minnesotagunner, Jul 3, 2011.

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  1. minnesotagunner

    minnesotagunner Member

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    Blackhawk Serpa Holster = Negligent Discharge?

    Well I figured that I would post this so you guys could see and possibly learn from it. One of my youtube buddies had an accident this weekend while he was making a video. He explains what happened in the beginning of the video.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE&feature=feedu


    Almost makes you think twice about the serpa holsters and safety in general.
     
  2. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    The was fired after it left the holster, this was user error. I have a Serpa Blackhawk holster myself and I trust my life to it. When I draw my gun, my finger is along the side of the frame. His finger was on the trigger before he was on target.
     
  3. One-Time

    One-Time Member

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    It was an ND, he had his booger hook on the bang switch
     
  4. Yukonstorm

    Yukonstorm Member

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    His finger was in side the trigger guard as he drew, the gun fired after it cleared the holster. Basic gun safety, don't point at what you don't want to shoot, namely your leg. Glad hes OK,m but hope he learned from this experience.
     
  5. smitty704

    smitty704 Member

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    Wow I still dont see how he kept his calm. Im not a wuss, but that had to hurt!!
     
  6. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    I gather that this holster has two modes of retention. The thumb hook and a side release that the trigger finger needs to stroke in order to release the gun. As we all know it doesn't take a lot of a finger strike to pull the trigger of a 1911. During a fast draw with a holster that reguires a finger push of a guard lock the trigger finger could easily flip into the guard without any intention of doing so quite at that moment. And on a 1911 if the safety is accidentally pushed off during a release by the thumb of that upper retention device then you're setting the stage for what happened here.

    On the shooter's Glock there's no safety to bump during the thumb latch disengagement and the trigger stroke is long enough that a slighty bump from residual tension in the trigger finger releasing the side mounted guard lock would not be enough to force the trigger. But clearly a cocked and locked 1911 is not at its best in such a holster since the thumb can inadvertently release the safety on the gun as it's unlatching the upper thumb latch. That sets the stage for the pressure loaded trigger finger to flip in against the trigger.

    What this tells me is that with a 1911 in any holster that protection of the safety to hold it in the safe position is as important as covering the trigger. A fact that has been much on my mind as I consider the use of my own 1911 in my IDPA shooting and what holster I want to get for that gun.

    For those of you dissmissing this injury with a casual "he did it to himself" attitude you may want to stop and actually analyze what went on. Even if you don't agree with me that there's some room for viewing the holster and gun combination as not ideal there is still something to be learned here. Yes, he put his finger into the trigger guard. That much is obvious. But as he said in his video about this shooting he had done this same draw many times before. From all indications this is a guy that does things right but in this case circumstances all ganged up to produce the ND. And when that sort of thing occurs it's worth looking at one's own equipment and situation.
     
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I can guarantee you Blackhawk did extensive testing on their Serpa holster and if there were any possibility of the gun firing without the trigger being touched that holster would not be on the market. The man pulled the trigger. Don't blame the holster for user error.

    He specifically states in the video he does not blame the holster so why are you??? I'm not a lawyer and I have never played one on TV but I do think you might want to be careful with what you say on an open forum about a produce. A real lawyer might make contact with you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  8. Apocalypse-Now

    Apocalypse-Now Member

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  9. MarkDozier

    MarkDozier Member.

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    BCRider - he discusses two holsters in the video. He had switched to the serpa and his 45. Please review the video carefully to understand the full content.

    I actually practice taking safety off and drawing, but after seeing this I am going to evaluate my process and possibly wait until I am clear leather to take off safety.
     
  10. onfloat

    onfloat Member

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    You have to give it to him for sharing and breaking down how it happened. A good debrief is a good lesson learned.
     
  11. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Fear the man with one gun and two holsters?

    Kudos for manning up.
     
  12. reuben mishler

    reuben mishler Member

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    Agreed, something we can all learn from, from an unfortunate situation.
     
  13. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    I practice a 4 pt draw. Pt 1: Clear the holster, Pt 2: Point toward enemy. I place my finger on the trigger after the pistol is pointed toward the enemy and I consider it the last step in Pt 2. This video makes me wonder if I should take a second look at how I draw. Maybe I should add a Pt and make Pt 3 placing my finger on the trigger to clearly distinguish this as a separate step in my draw.
     
  14. LMLarsen

    LMLarsen Member

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    This is why I avoid holsters with "gimmicky" release mechanisms, like the two in this video. My CCW holsters use molding and friction to retain the weapon, and my field holsters use thumbbreaks.

    Just my 2¢, as always.
     
  15. CTPhil

    CTPhil Member

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    I think that sometimes we just make it too complicated.
     
  16. 19-3Ben

    19-3Ben Member

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    Huge +1.
    Give me a well molded leather holster any day.
     
  17. ultradoc

    ultradoc Member

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    Hope you recover fast and thanks for sharing.
     
  18. BADUNAME13

    BADUNAME13 Member

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    Paul Gomez Wrote an exposé of that dangerous and useless holster several years ago.
     
  19. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I use those dangerous and useless holsters with several guns.
    I even use them with Glock pistols.

    The last time I put a bullet down my leg was 30 years ago and involved an 1851 Navy Colt and a leather period scabbard.

    Rule 1 when drawing a handgun from a holster.
    Keep your trigger finger AWAY from the trigger.
     
  20. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I have to add that this video also proves a .45 doesn't always knock a man down, even with a minor hit.

    I also have to add that if you plan on doing a lot of quick draw McGraw presentations, the Serpa IS NOT the holster for you.
    Blade Tech makes a far better speed scabbard for that kind of presentation work but I also feel a high quality molded leather holster is best for speed presentations from under concealment.

    It is a good thing this guy didn't lose his leg and I wish him a speedy and relatively painless recovery.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  21. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    It's certainly possible to run a SERPA safely. You just need to be very, very aware of what your trigger finger is doing throughout the drawstroke.

    Are you absolutely sure that you can maintain that level of awareness when your heart rate is pushing 200bpm, your palms are sweaty, and you're trying to fend off a homeless crackhead with a box cutter with one hand and draw your pistol with the other?

    I'm not.

    ETA:

    We can talk about Rule 2, keeping the trigger finger in register, 'negligent' vs. 'accidental' discharges, etc., until we are all blue in the face. The salient fact is, people make mistakes. The SERPA holster is utterly unforgiving of mistakes. If you screw up with one, you will probably shoot yourself. It's much like appendix IWB carry, light triggers, condition 1 carry, and pistols without external safeties, in that respect.

    The difference is that AIWB holsters, light triggers, C1 carry, et al., all provide a measurable advantage to the shooter. The SERPA does nothing that the Safariland ALS and the Blade-Tech 5.11 Thumb Drive don't do better...

    -C
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  22. doc.lonestar

    doc.lonestar Member

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    Imagine that - keeping you finger off the trigger until you have a front sight picture. Had used a serpa with a g23 for awhile - personally I love the safety on them. I just could not conceal it as well as I would have liked.

    Let me share a little formula I picked up over the years:

    Serpa + Finger on trigger during draw = bad

    Serpa - finger on trigger during draw = good

    AND:

    Serpa + finger on trigger during reholster = bad

    Serpa - finger on trigger during reholster = good

    All in good fun - I am glad that the victim of the nd is okay. Not wishing that kind of harm on anyone.

    Be safe.
     
  23. MrCleanOK

    MrCleanOK Member

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    This guy's video clearly demonstrates operator error between the guy and his pistol. Upon clearing the holster, he put his finger on the trigger. It matters not what kind of holster he was using, he would have done it anyway. He was trying to execute his cool gunfighting moves at a speed higher than his skill level allowed.

    I believe Serpa holsters are great, and the release is in no way "gimicky". If you're getting a good grip on the pistol before you pull it from the holster, you'll be indexing your trigger finger against the frame and outside the trigger guard (on the outside of the holster) anyway. All the Serpa does is put a positive locking mechanism under where your finger should already be in the first place.
     
  24. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I'm willing to concede the SERPA is a safe holster, with proper training, just like any other weapon related tool.

    However, I'm not a fan of the SERPA.

    Certainly, some users need the retention device offered by the SERPA, but I tend to think most don't.

    I believe half the cost of a SERPA is tied up in the retention device, either in R&D or production costs. If you don't need that device, then you've paid $60 for what is essentially a $30 holster.

    If you are looking for a range holster you don't need a retention device and I don't think most concealed carry users need a retention device either. The SERPA sticks out from the body quite a bit and doesn't conceal very well anyway. If you are looking for a range or concealed carry holster, there are many better options than the SERPA.

    Open carry users probably could use the SERPA's features to ensure the security of their pistols. If that is what you are looking for it would probably be a good option.
     
  25. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    They did have to recall the M&P model shortly after release because it could discharge the firearm.

    Serpas are straight up banned in my company.
     
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