video of robbery/assault on a bus in Europe

[Dark Skies]

In the UK possession of a lock knife or pepperspray to defend yourself would be classed as possession of an offensive weapon.

There are countless cases where people have defended themselves against thugs and robbers and been arrested for injuring their would-be assailent.

If you ever find yourself in the situation where the criminal has come off worse than yourself you should do a runner before the police eventually show up. A middle-class law-abiding citizen is more likely to accept a caution without making any trouble (thereby allowing a cop to meet that week's quota for government-led targets) than a troublesome perp with experience of working the system.

 

[Clint C]

TO BE TOLD BY THE COPS THAT IF THE CRIMINAL REPORTS IT THEY WILL HAVE TO CHARGE MY BROTHER WITH ASSAULT.

How could that hold up in any court in the world? The man was about to possibly lose his life, and obviously wanted to stay alive. If the criminal did press charges I am guessing he could have countered them.

How can you have a can of pepper spray and a pocket knife, but can't give a guy an elbow and a punch?

I feel sorry for people in Europe.

 

[Clint C]

I didn't see post 26. I guess I would become a street thug, and have the law protect me.

 

[mbt2001]

In the UK possession of a lock knife or pepperspray to defend yourself would be classed as possession of an offensive weapon.

Then carry a cane or one of those attack umbrellas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Eoj9fP98Y&feature=related

 

[Deanimator]

Then carry a cane or one of those attack umbrellas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Eoj...eature=related

You're missing the point. Britain is against SELF-DEFENSE. Eventually, they will make it an offense to run away.

 

[mbt2001]

You're missing the point. Britain is against SELF-DEFENSE. Eventually, they will make it an offense to run away.

I am not missing the point. I am saying that there is always a way to win.

Further to that, they LET their government get out of control on this topic. So it is going to take some time and pain to get things right again. That may mean that you get thrown in jail because you beat up 4 attackers with your cane.

Nelson Mandela was thrown in the slammer for political reasons.... Public outcry matters. So does standing up for what is right.

 

[middleground]

We're starting to drift away from discussing srategies and tactics regarding being interviewed, mugged, and then beaten on a bus.

Having watched a few videos (not the same as real world experiance, I know) of multiple attackers going after one victem, I really think you're best bet would be to run if possible.

If there is no chance to escape, you're unable to run, or you have family with you...now that's a tough one.

 

[Rellian]

according to 4freedom's post Mr. Sarkozy said,

"If you are assaulted by an armed burglar, he will use his weapon more effectively than you anyway,"

Overly presumptive I should think.

(Sarkozy... not 4freedom..... =D )

 

[Deanimator]

"If you are assaulted by an armed burglar, he will use his weapon more effectively than you anyway,"

Overly presumptive I should think.

Some people attribute qualities to others which they really know apply to themselves. Sarkozy probably realizes that HE can't defend himself.

 

[Wastemore]

You're missing the point. Britain is against SELF-DEFENSE.

Britain isn't fighting off my attacker(s), so it makes no difference to me what Britain is against.

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

watching that guy get beat up first made me angry that everyone just stood there and did nothing, but I also smiled a bit as well. Watching someone get beat up that is unwilling to fightback just makes me think "well that's your purpose in life, it's to be prey for others that are stronger than you!"

Never would I just get beat up or watch someone else get beat up. I always recall the words of one of my Drill Sergeants in cases like these when you are out numbered "bite their balls of, you can brush your teeth later."

 

[mbt2001]

Had anyone else gotten involved, they would have been beaten. There were 4 perps, with more friends on board the train. They didn't give a crap about the law or anything else.

if you are depending on someone coming to your rescue, then make sure you have your will in order.

I would advise carrying:

A knife pen
Pepper Spray
Pepper spray ring
Boot knife or TDI K-bar or AG Russel sting
Kobutan or like
CCW peice
Neck Knife
Knife in pocket (back pocket weak hand)
and a BUG
and maybe another bug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_4E5Wao_OU&feature=channel

That really happened. From a movie, but the Zodiac killer really did that. After I saw that I decided to always carry something, carry as much as possible so no matter where my hands where, I have access to a weapon.

Laugh if you want... But there are some sick idiots running around that get their jollies in very odd ways.

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

"Had anyone else gotten involved, they would have been beaten. There were 4 perps, with more friends on board the train. They didn't give a crap about the law or anything else."

how can you be sure about this? Hell they weren't even paying attention to anyone else for the most part. Even the small girl could have walked up behind and kick two of them in the balls before the rest realized what happened. I think one of the girls jumping into the mix would have made a huge difference actually. Most people(not all) seeing a girl get hit would then also step in. There were more people watching the beating than participating. Not saying they wouldn't have got a few bumps and bruises had they joined in, but since when is that a bad thing?

 

[Dark Skies]

"mbt2001
Further to that, they LET their government get out of control on this topic."

Things really went tits up when Tony Blair got into power and foisted his socialist control freakery upon the country. He started off by infecting the police authorities and judicial system. When you've unarmed citizens ranged against the authorities with your civil liberties steadily removed it's not really a question of 'letting' rather than being powerless in the first place. Unfortunately the opposition party -the Conservatives are more of the same under a different flag.

There is a party that wants to take us back to the way we were and reinstate British values, common sense and old school law and order but it is not without some trepidation that one marks your X in their box in the next election. The British National Party - some say an extreme right wing party with affiliation to Neo Nazi groups.

What I can't understand is ... Tony Blair is paid millions in the USA to speak at public events and spout his simplistic and banal speeches. By all accounts you love him over there. What is it about the socialist, rabidly anti-gun, happy-clappy cretin that you all find so appealing?

By the way ... the unbrella thing wouldn't really work for me. I ride a motorcycle and would have nowhere to put it. However, being a biker means I have to lock up my motorcycle thoroughly. I wear a long 1/4" thick metal chain bandolier style ...

 

[Kayback]

The criminals will magically be better at using their guns than I am? Good one.

If you don't count the countless hours I've spent being trained as an armed policeman, or the courses I've done, how about the fact I'm legally allowed to shoot at a shooting range, and they can't?

Honestly most badguys are just trying to make a score with a little intimidation. I'm fighting for my life and my family. Who's more motivated?

Again, being a hero isn't an option. in many European countries if you'd waded in, you would be up for assault as well.

There was a case of a guy in England (Again), I forget where, was charged with assault when he hit an armed intruder, in the middle of the night, with his birds head walking stick. He was old and needed to move around, and it was counted as aggrivated assault / assault with a deadly weapon (!).

KBK

 

[Dark Skies]

Here's a story that raises the hackles of every red-blooded and thoroughly pissed off British man. It ought to touch a nerve with you guys too. It particularly bothered me that his own barrister had to play the mental card in order to try an elicit sympathy for the true victim. I believe they should have stayed firm and gone with the Englishman defending his castle angle instead of pandering to the politically correct brigade.

http://www.derbygripe.co.uk/martin.htm

 

[mbt2001]

Tony Blair is paid millions in the USA to speak at public events and spout his simplistic and banal speeches. By all accounts you love him over there. What is it about the socialist, rabidly anti-gun, happy-clappy cretin that you all find so appealing?

I think it is the accent...

how can you be sure about this? Hell they weren't even paying attention to anyone else for the most part. Even the small girl could have walked up behind and kick two of them in the balls before the rest realized what happened. I think one of the girls jumping into the mix would have made a huge difference actually.

The girl that you are talking about was the girl friend or sister of one of the perps.

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

girls do love those bad boys!

 

[Dark Skies]

"I think it is the accent..."

Just so's you know he's Scottish and not English. I'm not wearing his shame.

 

[KBT1911]

If that guy had gone buck wild on the first guy who stepped up, they might have retreated, or just beat him worse. The problem is, he sat there like a stupid animal, while the gang pointed him out, egged each other on, and finally went and attacked. Had he got on the bus, made quick eye contact with each of the degenerates (not a stare down) and let them know by body language that messing with him would be a real pain, they likely would have chosen someone else. He also had a chance to get off the bus once, but he had already convinced himself that nothing was going to happen, even though all the signs were there. That's the worst thing you can do. You gotta hear that little voice.

 

[kyo]

No offense to the Brits, but your country is more retarded then America. Here we have "gun free" zones where crazy people go on a killing spree. There you get in trouble for saving your own life... Politicians here know that if you screw with gun rights you are OUT of office. Period.
Would be it a strategy to counter sue an idiot who attacks you for assault? I mean, from what I am reading here, it is like Britain is high school or middle school in America. No Tolerance fighting. Even in Self defense you are boned. How could it have happened? Who decided that the animal instinct in all of us to preserve life was against the law? Sorry I don't mean to rant, but that is frustrating, and it does in fact make my blood boil...

 

[Dark Skies]

No offense taken kyo - although I'd say it was our Government that was retarded rather than the country.


The UK under Labour in a nutshell

"The parole board, however, has continually refused him early release, saying he has shown no remorse and would continue to pose a danger to any other burglars."

Heaven forfend that we put the safety of law abiding citizens before that of criminals.


Tony Martin is said to be "disgusted" at a BBC documentary's decision to pay the convicted burglar he wounded at his home about £4,000. A BBC spokesman said it had paid Brendan Fearon a fee to appear to ensure the programme was "properly balanced".

NOTE . The BBC is a socialist propaganda machine - funded by a compulsorary license fee paid by everyone who owns a TV set in the UK. This means law-abiding citizens paid for this scumbag to tell his story.

http://www.derbygripe.co.uk/martin.htm

 

[outerlimit]

If that guy had gone buck wild on the first guy who stepped up, they might have retreated, or just beat him worse. The problem is, he sat there like a stupid animal, while the gang pointed him out, egged each other on, and finally went and attacked.

The problem with this is, when the second one walked up next to him and started digging for his wallet, he needed to act fast. Going buck wild isn't going to do it. There are at least four of them and only one of you. They aren't going to retreat. If he would have pushed him backwards, the others would have stepped up right away and you'd still be dealing with the original thief. What you have to do I'm sorry to say is hurt the original attacker real bad. He deserves it anyways, he's digging in your back pocket and you don't know him, so don't be nice. If you don't have a weapon, like at least a knife you're going to have to grab this guy and smash his head against something hard enough to incapacitate him. Because even if the others attack, you have one less attacker to deal with. You're basically screwed if you stand there and do nothing, unless you pull out a gun or a knife. But a knife won't necessarily do it unless you attack the first guy with it. If you just pull it out, remember you're in close quarters and maybe they have knives too.

Watching the video again, I can see the victim is pretty drunk.

 

[Dark Skies]

Agree with outerlimit. The first attacker is the bravest(?)/ leader of the bunch. So he's the one that needs to be damaged horrifically enough to make the others back off. A pen in his eyeball followed up with a kick to the nuts to get his head low enough to kick him into fractured skull territory. That sort of caper. He has to go down and he needs to ooze out some of his claret.

 

[middleground]

I agree with the idea of hurting the first attacker/leader really bad.

Just to play devils advocate for moment though...

Even in the U.S., I could see someone being in hot water legally if they ended up killing a mugger in a situation like this. I could see the court of public opinion asking..."was you're life really being threatened by that misguided pick pocket?"

I think its ridiculous that you'd have to defend your actions, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

At what point in this incident did things escalate to a life threatening situation? Do we have to let things go that far before responding with serious and/or deadly force? (knife, pen to the eye?).