video of robbery/assault on a bus in Europe

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In Texas mbt2001 playing the part of the victim.

When the first nut job stock his hand in my jacket, Eagle Claw, then I spin punch hoodie right in the face and wave kick to the knee. So, one dude down possibly dying the other dude hurt, depending on the punch and kick effectiveness.

I then reach into my back pocket, light up a Marlboro after striking the match on my face and say:

"Anyone else feeling froggy?"

:) Maybe Steven Segal playing the part... :p

The problem started when he didn't stand up for himself. Far better to hurt them some and take your a$$ kicking like an adult than try to pretend that nothing happened. One of the reasons that I do not fight per se, is that a possible result of fighting is death. So one must do what he must to WIN otherwise you might be the dead one. Logical progression. But in some cases, where you are disarmed it is far better to get your licks in and hope for the best. I am not going to be put down like some steer.
 
disparity of force. if 4 or more people are robbing me and punching me, i have every right to defend myself, at least here in america. i will do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat. if that means bashing some thug into a rail or handle, then so be it. if it means stabbing someone with a pen, so be it. i don't like being violent, but if being peaceful won't help you, then it is time to fight back.
 
i don't like being violent, but if being peaceful won't help you, then it is time to fight back.
Yes but,

1. You will have "lowered yourself to their level".
2. Some people won't like you, and everybody knows that being liked by total strangers with no concern for your welfare is more important than actually being alive and well.
3. You don't need to defend yourself because the police will protect you. They HAVE to because it says so on the doors of their cars.

See, I've got the formula down to a tee...
 
Even in the U.S., I could see someone being in hot water legally if they ended up killing a mugger in a situation like this.

I don't think a person should worry about it, trust your gut rather than worrying about the legal repercussions of defending yourself and property. The biggest advantage that an attacker has is the mental advantage, because he's already made up his mind and decided that he's going to hurt/maim/kill. You have to make the decision in that split second. Many times people will not draw a weapon or attack when they should for fear of legal and social repercussions, which is totally understandable.

Likely you're a citizen with an upstanding reputation and he's likely a pile of dung with a record and generally known for being a p.o.s. Any jury or D.A. will take that into account.
 
Another European chiming in with some observations. First of all: forget about defending yourself with some sort of weapon. While certain types (pepperspray, for example) are allowed in some countries, you are almost bound to get into legal trouble should you use them.

Furthermore, those types of youngsters "hunt in packs" - not only will they never try to pull off something on their own, the miraculously multiply if you lay into them (which is also the reason why in Europe, less people seem preprared to "get involved"). Must have something to do with the culture because sad as it may be, they're usually from (Northern-)African descent (in France and my own country, at least).

That's why I - although allowed to carry - would never turn my back to a group such as shown in the video (if y'all want to call that profiling, fine with me), and that guy should have known better too than standing like that, almost oblivious to the surroundings and not keeping his arms against his body... which leads me to believe that he's a tourist (as already suggested), an exchange student or something.
 
Yeah. You can see them egging each other on and trying to build their confidence. If he had noticed, he could have got off the bus the first time it stopped and even if they followed him, he'd be on better ground to fight or flee. Once the mugging started he was already in the poo against 4 guys. All you can do at that point is fight or let them run you over. I'm for fighting, but obviously this guy wasn't a fighter. He was already in too deep to save himself.

Here in the U.S. (I had a similar situation on a DART rail car. Obvious scumbag trying to size me up to rob) as soon as I noticed those guys scopin me out, I would have my hand on any weapon available (in the U.S. my folding knife or pistol) and started making plans to either bug out or squabble. As it happened, I looked like too much trouble for the dude and he left me alone.

In Europe and Korea, I still carried a tactical folding knife even though I wasn't supposed to. I had to show it to a couple of people and that was usually enough. Thugs don't like 6 foot dudes who might stab them if attacked.

nononsenseselfdefense has a good thread on strong arm robbery.
 
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That little ****e in the white hoodie, the little leader. He was feeling 10 feet tall because of his 4 buddies who might bail him out.

You know what happens to corkies in a dog park against a pitbull? = snack.
 
that dude didn't even fight back, how pathetic. None of them were that big or knew how to fight. I would have been breaking noses, I don't care (of course here my Glock 17 would've persuaded them they have business elsewhere :) ).

Also could you be LESS aware of your surroundings?
 
I would say no my life was not being threatened by the pickpocket until I rightfully tried to get my wallet back, then it was. Same way as if someone was stealing my car, they were not endangering my life until I stepped in front of it to rightfully stop them from taking my property then I had to shoot him cause he was threatening my life with my car :D (yeah I know that it's only a wish and a dream, but I like it in theory)

I will agree with the others about beating the one that seemed to be the leader. I've been in a few bar brawls where I(we) were out numbered, so I'd pick the one guy take him to the ground and ignore the fact the others were kicking me while I pummeled the one into a bloody pulp, the other ones usually got scared that I was some sort of psycho(which has yet to be officially determined) and ran away, especially once I decided to stop on the one and stare at another like he was the next to endure such treatment.
 
I find all the talk in this thread about persuading or encouraging attackers to back off at the mere sight of your studly firearms and edged weapons absolutely hilarious. I hope nobody actually thinks that way, because it is very likely to be dangerous to your health or get you killed.
 
If you are referring to one of my posts, that wasn't the way my statement was intended. I can see how it might be taken that way, so I apologize.

I wouldn't brandish a weapon for the purpose of intimidation. That's just bad all the way around.
 
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I want everyone reading this thread to know that I don't believe in violence.



Unless it's absolutely necessary. And in that case I want to act so violently that it's over quickly, hopefully with me mostly intact and them taking damage.

This video was hard for me to watch at first because it brought back memories. I grew up in a pretty bad neighborhood, and found it frustrating that my mother and teachers espoused the "turn the other cheek" response to bullying. I gave it a good try, honest I did, but it always resulted in the bullies taking my lunch money/shoving me down the stairs/knocking my books in the mud/slapping me around, and me taking the damage. About 4th grade I finally snapped one day, and kicked a bully right in a location that resulted in him rolling around on the ground clutching himself while his fellow bullies ran off. Of course the school authorities scolded, threatened and suspended me, and my mother made me sit quietly and study for the next 3 days, which was okay because it gave me plenty of time to reflect on the major life lesson I had learned:

The people who insisted on my being a passive victim were WRONG in a big way, because one well-placed kick stopped that bully cold. Pacifism sucks when you're being attacked (at least, if you dislike being attacked), and one sudden violent act solved the problem.

So when I went back to school, the bully in question and his buds followed me around for a while, saying how they were going to get even later. I was kinda scared, but I put on my John Wayne face and said, "Come on when you're ready" or words to that effect. Somehow they never got ready enough, I guess.

In high school and later on in the service, I put that lesson to use from time to time. I'm not overtall, but kinda stout (husky, I said back then) and I fell in with some guys who were serious about inflicting damage without weapons, and we sparred around to the point where more than one didn't make me freeze with fear.

I think Hungry Seagull mentioned a key point in post #10 - arrange yourself so they have to come at you one at a time. I can only focus my attention effectively on one attacker at a time, and I don't want another one blindsiding me. Backed against a wall or truck is better than out in the open, an aisle or doorway is even better, narrow it down to about 20 degrees of approach and you've got it made. The guy on the bus could have used the posts and seats to position himself like this, from what I saw.

Then, don't talk. Talking gets in the way of action. Use the time instead to set a trigger point for yourself. "When he gets to right there, I'm gonna take him." Also inventory your surroundings for things that could be useful. In that bus, there were steel posts and rails and seatbacks that the guy could have used to damage the punks without smacking his own body parts into theirs.

The third thing is, don't let them set the pace (don't turn your back on them is pretty much a no-brainer). At 2:07, the gray-coated punk bumps him but it's unclear how hostile he is. At 2:13, when the green-coated punk takes over, the guy sits there and dances with him for several seconds. After that, it's all downhill.

Here's what I'd rather see at about 2:05. The guy is facing the punks, and he's solidified his stance, bladed if he wants, but you can do it from squared also if you take one step back with your strong foot and bend your knees slightly (also, he has his wallet in some more secure location, fer cryin' out loud). Hands down at his sides, the victim lets gray-coat approach to within about arms reach and then brings both hands up and palm-pushes him in the lower chest, shoving him back and to the right, hard. While green-coat is closing the distance, the victim says loudly, "Don't hurt me!" Green-coat raises his right hand first as he gets there, the victim grabs the wrist in one hand, the shoulder or jacket in the other, and turning to his left, breaks that arm across the post on the left, whatever that is.

Then he shoves green-coat back into the crowd. That's an important point, because if he comes back (not likely, but possible), he's injured already. If he doesn't come back, he's an obstacle to his fellow punks, who have to get around or over him to continue fighting. Also, it clears everybody away from the victim for long enough to regain his balance and face the remaining situation.

The bald punk looks like a strapping lad, let's say he comes up next. He'll probly have his hands up in a "boxing" position or something similar as he approaches, and the victim's task is to to get baldie's arms apart and get inside him, even if he has to take a glancing hit to do so. Once he's inside, he reaches up and grabs baldie's chin and back of his head, tilts it back and cranks hard to one side, probly clockwise if he's right handed. Push him away as he falls (knee in the groin optional), and don't worry about him getting back up. That leaves the white hoodie, and he's the one most likely to pull a knife IMHO.

Let's say he does. Finally, the victim is justified in using deadly force. It's about time, don't you think? Or maybe gray-coat decides he wants some more. Some punks just take longer to catch on to a bad idea, that's all. Anyway, here are a couple things to remember:

1) All these actions need to be done fairly quickly, but more importantly, vigorously! Give it everything you've got without hesitation. Timidity kills! Grab whatever you can get ahold of and hit it on something hard or bend it the way it doesn't bend. Human body parts - break them like you mean it.

'Nother point this brings up: If you're CCW'ing and decide to HTH, your piece wants to be secure enough that it doesn't come loose during all that jumping around.

2) During close-in, hand to hand combat, you might get hurt. Ignore that, and concentrate on damaging your attacker. If you fail, you'll get hurt BAD. Turn your fear to anger, and fuel yourself with it. You have a raging Mongol chromosome, everybody does, but normally we keep it caged up and buried down deep. Now (in this kind of emergency) is when you pull the muzzle off him and put him in charge. There'll be plenty of time to shake and cry and bleed later.

Disclaimer: I'm not a HTH instructor or any kind of authority on the subject, but I used to be passing good at ending a fistfight without using my fists. Even now, many years later, people who could mess with me don't.

Parker... let me remind you I don't believe in violence. Violence is ugly, risky, and brutal. The only reason we would even consider it is to prevent something worse.
 
disproportion of force...5 vs 1? Yea, I would be way in my rights to kill one of them. Especially if they are trying to beat me. Hell, I could shoot all 5 and still be innocent because of disproportion of force.
 
DId you notice how the guy tried to retreat and how everyone else was also trying to escape the attackers? Most of the attackers did not appear to even be native French?

There is a reason why they say the French flag should be a solid white color, "I SURRENDER!" Famous French words. Perhaps the guy who got beaten up could have asked to have joined them in return they spare his life.

Sorry, I won't start spewing French jokes over this thread..:D
 
DId you notice how the guy tried to retreat and how everyone else was also trying to escape the attackers? Most of the attackers did not appear to even be native French?

See my former post in this thread for the most likely explanation. Current state of affairs: you hit one, three appear. You hit three, fifteen appear. (Heaven forbid) you shoot one, you get a week of rioting, smashing storefronts and burning cars. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Brussels_riots and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_civil_unrest_in_France.
 
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From the Brussels link:Most rioters were identified as immigrant youths from North-African origin, who claimed that they are upset by the death of Chaaban (rioting on the evening of 23 Sep, Chaaban found dead on 24 Sep).

That would be much more believable if they had started rioting after his death instead of before. I believe the solution to that is to stock up on ammo, then shoot one. When three more pop up, shoot them as well. When 10 more pop up, reload and shoot them also. Repeat until they stop popping up or you get low on ammo. Return to step 1.

It's clear that some of these countries allow the trash to pile up in their streets, and that's beyond any of our control. Faced with a gang of punks on a bus, however, we do have some options. Personally, as long as I could face them one by one, I would rather go through a whole busload of punks, inflicting as much damage as I was able, until fatigue overcame me or I ran out of punks. After that I'll take my beating with a smile.

Actually, I'm wearing a big American smile right this minute, pleased at the thought that I could live out my remaining years and never set foot in France. No doubt they'll miss my company and brilliant insight, but I guess they'll have to struggle along somehow.

Parker

note to self: no touching Chuck, even in jest.
 
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Honestly, violence begets violence amigo. I understand what you are saying, but our problems are not so easily fixed or our humanity so easily kept that we can just shoot our problems away.

That is why we have Strategies and Tactics.
 
What I can't understand is ... Tony Blair is paid millions in the USA to speak at public events and spout his simplistic and banal speeches. By all accounts you love him over there. What is it about the socialist, rabidly anti-gun, happy-clappy cretin that you all find so appealing?
I think it's because we don't have to live with his laws, and most of us didn't even know about that.
 
Violence when applied switfty solves problems pernamently.

I had one bully who was very confident in his weight, strength and place among his friends pick on me for a year in school.

What that bully had to deal with was several attacks from me applied to him in stairwell corners when he was cut out of the herd between classes a time or two.

The stairwells had a sort of concrete/stone mix walls that were very useful when you fist a person's head of hair and ram face into it with much force. Particularly when your 110 pound frame cannot generate the necessary punch to hurt a 200 pounder.

Only I swung my textbook filled backpack against the bully's head, 30 pounds of learning hammering that person. Would be considered aggravated assault today I think. Bully was fat, stupid and dismissive of me as a threat, he never see that backpack coming in.

His friends laughed at his black eye and busted braces and asked what happened. Bully's response was that littke &^%$ (Pointing at me) did it. I looked at the friends each in the eye enjoying the prospect of taking each one on in the stairwells one at a time.

I knew thier class schedules by heart, I knew what doors and buses they used to enter in the morning and exit at afternoon. I knew which paths and habits they had after months of study.

Months of enduring bullying and general locker room shoving, bending over etc while gathering data. After a few day's worth of violence with three specific people caught away from thier friends and without detection by the school administration solved the problem pernamently.

Years later I was to meet one of those bullies whose job was to fix my big truck's failed alternator. That converstation we had was one which all of our differences in those days were resolved. And he did a good job fixing alternator. I eyeballed him the whole time and double checked his work.

That is one reason this video made me sick. This person was not a fighter.

Now... I do worry what will happen to this person... mentally and physically once the scars heal and the trauma calms down.

This person is probably going to totally swing towards training of some kind and adopt a position that no one or group will ever be allowed to touch him ever again.

Either that or he will break and be ineffective for the rest of his life.

But one day that will be resolved and I worry about it when thinking about the possible futures of those who think they can continue to beat up anyone they wish at a whim.

One will be armed and they will die for it. No sympathy from me.

I have not been violent in years. Not like when I was young. And it's a good thing.
 
I had a meeting with a bully that tormented me in high school several years later. I was a drill sgt and he was a trainee. Needless to say he paid dearly to be able graduate from basic training.
 
Not sure what that was.
Looked more like a spontaneous beating then a mugging. One of the guys involved had his girl friend there for god sake. That and they came back to beat on the guy some more. They were probably drunk or high, I saw that kind of thing happen a lot when I was a bartender. (the victim looked like he may have had a few too) The ebb and flow of the situation had that look to it.

No rhyme or reason to it, the guys grouping together to attack another guy often didn’t even know each other. Often they just met and started to drink together and just happen to be people who are violent by nature looking for an outlet for that violence.

Not that the reason matters much, though I think a good dose of OC spray in the face at the start would have done wonders to end all that before it got going. OC really takes the fight out of most folks! I think it’s a good idea to carry both personally.


Watched it again, looks like pickpocket gone bad I guess.
 
I tend to not stick out of most crowds. I am 5'8',wiry thin ,dark white guy,a few ( discreet) tattoos,tend to "dress down"-no flash/bling,no IPOD,jewelry;whatever.OTOH, I am a very experienced fighter-I gotta concur with soemone ealier who posted about not trying to "eyeball" people-that WILL bring some things up quicker.The balance is to not attract attention BUT do not give off "prey" vibes.People ( both good and bad) can smell fear AND a phony.I never got braced on a subway car,but I DID have a few interesting times on the platform.
Eyes and ears-you gotta use them: Both YOUR own,and when /if stuff happens use THEIRS:Nothing says "we should not do this" likebad things happening to you from a guy you and your friends had marked for getting taxed .
 
well...All I can say is Good thing I wasn't on the bus Europe or anywhere else on the planet.

How pathetic to watch the rest of the bus riders do NOTHING to help the poor guy.
 
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