Girodin:I have spent a good deal of time living in Europe and in terms of self defense the laws are just horrible. Sadly they are a reflection of the values many people there have.
I've heard that before, but I've never been to Europe to see it firsthand. In fact, the first time I've given Europe more than a passing thought in quite a while was when I opened this thread and saw the video, and started imagining myself in that fellow's situation. There are punks here too, and I think it's useful for us to learn what we can from discussing this guy's misfortune.
The fact is in Europe young guys like the ones in that video like to look for trouble. That guy might have acted differently and had the exact same thing happen. As much as anything I dont think a guy like him, dressed the way he was, was going to get off that bus without trouble. The best thing he could have done was not be there.
Well, yeah. Except sometimes you need to go places and do things, and sometimes where you need to go and what you need to do are not convenient to avoiding the bad side of town. And sometimes trouble comes and finds you even on the good side of town.
The fact is if a group of thugs decides to jump you then you are probably screwed, all the tough guy talk aside. I have fought Muay Thai for 8 years and trained years in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I have trained with and helped train guys who have fought in the UFC (and previously pride fc). I have been in a few scraps and know a thing or two about fighting. I have no illusions that I can fend off multiple attackers. That is movie stuff, and about as real as the gun stuff in movies. Even someone who can and wants to fight will be very hard pressed to face two determined attackers and when you get to three, four, etc chances are very very slim indeed. (and later...)Dont kid yourself into thinking that you'll win a fist fight against multiple attackers.
I've never done any training with UFC fighters or the other things you have, and I certainly defer to your experience in that. I'm sorry for the amount of "tough guy talk" in my other post, and I didn't mean it that way, but I have faced more than one attacker, and I thought I was clear about doing everything possible to face them one at a time.
I also don't think those punks were anywhere near the caliber of your sparring partners and trainers - I didn't see disciplined, coordinated movement from them. I think they were more "whackers of opportunity" than trained fighters, and some of the time they couldn't even get out of each others way. I didn't see them as "determined attackers", and that's a big reason why I think a "determined defender" could have put some hurt on them.
Here's something even more important, though. Some members of THR, including myself, are showing our age as we approach "old timer" status. I'm not as strong or quick as I was in my 20's, although I try to stay active and in good condition. My endurance is less, my joints and muscles less limber. That said, this guy was down to no good choices, and in his situation neither surrender or running has much appeal for me. Sure, we'd all like to be packing a handgun when confronted (except for those of us who'd prefer a rifle), but even in America our government insists on disarming us in certain places, and those places are accessible to punks. As I see his options, they laid out like this:
1) Do what he did - don't resist, or resist weakly. We can see how that worked out for him, and he could have fared much worse. The punks got bored with beating on him before they killed him, is what I think, but I'm not going to put my continued existence at the discretion of a gang of punks.
2) Run. This is a better option than surrender, but not by much considering I'm an older guy running from several younger guys, and if I have to fight at the end of my run, I'll be weaker than I am right now. Also, it turns my back to them, which is to my disadvantage.
3) Fight. To the best of my ability, with whatever I have to fight with. It's not an ideal choice, that's for sure, but it beats h*ll out of choices 1 and 2. Fighting has no additional downside, but it has at least some potential for gain. I don't expect to win, in the sense of walking away without a scratch, but if the punks get my wallet, some of them are gonna earn it. If I survive to heal slowly, I need some satisfaction out of the deal.
If you've got an option #4, I'm all ears. But the attitude of "do nothing and hope they don't hurt you too bad" isn't on the table for me, anyway.
I grew up in bear country, and spent a lot of time outdoors. We had an old M12 Winchester that my dad loaded with slugs, and every so often he'd take me out and make me empty it into a stump as fast as I could go. He said, "Son, if you're attacked by a bear, don't die with any shells left. It'd be a shame to lose you, but worse to disgrace the family name."
I guess that's the unfortunate part about being American, that stubborn streak that pushed the pioneers across the plains. I guess the Europeans missed out on that by staying home.
Parker