Video store robbery - what would you do?

[AFhack]

IMO - i agree with cybert. He said he wouldn't shoot to protect property but he would err on the side of personal safety. I agree with that.

 

[Texas9]

Easy, fellas

We're gonna get moderated here in a minute...

None of us TRULY know what we'd do, do we? God-willing, my piece would never enter the open air of the room (though I'd certainly be more than WILLING). I would hope that I'd recognize the BB gun, take it away, and drag those little suckers into the back office by their ears (Tombstone style). I ain't trying to go into anything with the intent to kill.

And if, God-forbid, I've got to go heels, remember: the rule is shoot to STOP.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Could you tell this is a BB gun?
(I have one of these, and it looks just like a stainless Beretta 92)

From less than 20 feet, it is pretty easy to identify even the most realistic BB/Airsoft guns. Such as the 92FS airsoft, you can see molding lines, the decockers are molded into th slide, the finish is quite different from a real Inox 92, sights on a real 92 are black, etc.

However, some of the replica guns out there made for movies and such are so close that if you can't read the writing on them, you can't tell. On the same note, it is pretty easy to tell if the threat is real if you're staring down the bore. I've yet to find a handgun where you could not see the nose of the bullet when a round is chambered (provided the is some ambient light). In the video store setting, you would certainly be able to see it.

Edit:
As to the youthful robbers, depends. Provided that I could identify it as a BB gun, probably order them to disarm and drop, then hold them at gun point until the police arrived. I'm betting this would probably deter them from future mischeivous acts, as staring down the bore of a very real and very loaded handgun would put the fear of god in any half-way intelligent person. Once they realize that it is not just police who can foil their attempts, they may rethink a life of crime.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

couple years back

I took a repica 45 off a neighbor kid that was scary real. there was a ll spike welded across barrel but in dark or scared i woulda been hard pressed to call it a fake. And the 9 year old was pointing it at me when I took it and he definitly raised my pucker factor. this sucker had a working safety was made of heavy enough metal that until i took it apart i wasn't sure what i had exactly. His mom called cops on me but when i showed the sheriff the "toy " he helped me out . He read her the riot act. I think we were both thinking how it would feel to kill a kid then find out that he was holding a toy.That happened in calif once that i remember and the cop had a real bad time with it. He got over it sorta. Hes an episcopal priest now.

thankfully only one person seems to embrace gunning kids

 

[Cybert]

MachIVshooter: If the kids are disarmed, you do NOT take out your gun. What you said can and should put you in jail for a long time. I really hope this is just testosterone-fueled bravado.

 

[MachIVshooter]

MachIVshooter: If the kids are disarmed, you do NOT take out your gun. What you said can and should put you in jail for a long time. I really hope this is just testosterone-fueled bravado.

Reading comprehension seems to be an issue here.

Let's try this again. I said:

order them to disarm and drop, then hold them at gun point until the police arrived

Do you really think anyone would bark orders unarmed and them arm themselves once the criminal has complied?

And advise on handling this situation from someone who says:

Like I have said. Lay low. If they point anything remotely dangerous at you, unload everything you have. Deal with the consequences later.

 

[Cybert]

MachIVshooter: Once they have disarmed, you drop the gun and conceal it. You do not hold anyone at gunpoint to fulfill your wish to be some hero. I would just take the weapons (or ammo) and leave. I'm not a police officer, and I don't want to waste my time.

 

[DirtyBrad]

If some five year old puke points a anything resembling a gun at me, I am unloading on him. Period.

These two pukes are so dead...

 

[Cybert]

There have been police shottings due to lazer tag guns. It's not a joke. Everything goes into the equation. Life and death happens in under a second.

 

[DirtyBrad]

"Equation" almost implies that there are a multitude of variables that go into the decision rather than just the blanket idea of shooting anyone with anything pointed at you.

With that kind of thinking, you might even have to "be sure of your target" before firing.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

These two pukes are so dead...

HAHAHAHAHA, DirtyBrad, i seriously just fell out of my chair.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Once they have disarmed, you drop the gun and conceal it. You do not hold anyone at gunpoint to fulfill your wish to be some hero. I would just take the weapons (or ammo) and leave. I'm not a police officer, and I don't want to waste my time.

This is why junior high school kids aren't given CCW permits.

 

[Eyesac]

No matter what, this is a very tough situation. There's no way to make a shoot or no shoot call until you're there.

But bottom line, I will only draw (and fire) if I feel like my life is threatened. No exceptions. Just like I will avoid situations that make me scared for my life at all costs (i.e. jumping out of an airplane, getting in a Grizzly bear fight) , I will avoid shooting as long as I can, or as long as I can until I am afraid for my life (or others).

Sounds like Cybert wants to shoot them on principal and while I do understand wanting to teach these kids a lesson, I think shooting them would be more trouble than it's worth, for everyone.

 

[Matt G]

Sheeple. Sheeple in the house. If some four year old girl points anything remotely resembling a gun at me, I will ventilate her. Orange tip? That can be put on any gun. A bb gun can kill in a lcky shot.

Just to make everything crystal clear for me, Cybert, you are saying that if a child points a BB gun at you, the correct response is to shoot her. Is that correct?

 

[FTF]

If I felt that my life was in danger, or pretty damn sure that someone else's was... I would fill the threat full of lead.

I seriously doubt that I would be analyzing the gun he had trying to determine if it was an airsoft or BB gun... most likely my heart would be racing, my throat would be dry and I would be pulling my .45 in slow motion worrying mainly that I didn't grip it like a sissy and have a malfunction or miss any follow up shots.

I think in that situation that the brain would react.. the brain doesn't react by trying to figure out how realistic the gun or how long the knife is that is about to kill you. It just reacts... and, unfortunately, that usually means that someone dies.

Now, if someone pulls a super-soaker on me suddenly, lets be real, I'm not going to start shooting. Along the same lines, if someone ahead of me whips out a gun, fake or not, my immediate reaction isn't going to be to start spraying lead everywhere.

Guess it would have to happen. I hope it never does and I can rent my videos in peace.

 

[outfieldjack]

Y'all can spend a few seconds staring down the barrell to determine weather it is a BB gun or a .22 or whatever. I'm duck/cover.... then shooting if/when needed.

 

[knuckles]

From less than 20 feet, it is pretty easy to identify even the most realistic BB/Airsoft guns. Such as the 92FS airsoft, you can see molding lines, the decockers are molded into th slide, the finish is quite different from a real Inox 92, sights on a real 92 are black, etc.

However, some of the replica guns out there made for movies and such are so close that if you can't read the writing on them, you can't tell. On the same note, it is pretty easy to tell if the threat is real if you're staring down the bore. I've yet to find a handgun where you could not see the nose of the bullet when a round is chambered (provided the is some ambient light). In the video store setting, you would certainly be able to see it.

I've yet to find a handgun where you could not see the nose of the bullet when a round is chambered

You're kidding right? You must have some kind of super vision or something to be able to see a round chambered in any and all handguns. I am getting on in my age (I guess) because I am not sure I would be able to see the 'molding lines' on a BB gun or that I would bother to move closer to the muzzle so I could stare down the barrel for chamber round. I guess I'll pack a flashlight from now on so I can light up the perps bore to better see that round that has my name on it.

Also, I am not an expert on the finish of 'a real Inox' and I didn't know that the 'sights on a real 92 are black'. And that just covers one particular BB gun that looks realistic. I suppose we should all be experts on all BB guns (and Airsoft guns while we are at it), so that when we are in the video store we can tell if some punk knocking the place off is wielding a real gun or not.

Come on man, recommending that one pauses to try and stare down the muzzle looking for a chambered round is completely unreasonable and entirely unrealistic.

 

[JShirley]

Come on man, recommending that one pauses to try and stare down the muzzle looking for a chambered round is completely unreasonable and entirely unrealistic.

Definitely- you also should NOT let the muzzle cover you. At the same time, sometimes it's obvious whether you're facing a real firearm or not.

John

 

[mindwip]

I would not shoot them both ways,

If i knew it was a fake gun i would walk out and call the cops. No way in hell am i laying a hand on the kid, i can just see the sexual harresemt/baby hitter charges being filled.

If i could not tell, i would treat it as a real gun, but would not fire, just sit back and wait. Now if they threatened my life and pointed a gun at me i would maybe fire. Still not sure. Hard call, i would be afiard that they did have fakes

 

[Manedwolf]

IMO, situations like that, where you know it's not a real gun but they're committing what counts as a violent crime with it...that's what Fox Labs OC is good for.

But also do keep in mind that punks in LA have been painting orange on the muzzles of real pistols.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

orange painted muzzles

not that i put it past them but i can't find any real references to this


"But also do keep in mind that punks in LA have been painting orange on the muzzles of real pistols."

 

[GHF]

With the Cavate That I Live In Florida

Should I become involved in a store robbery, I would operate under the assumption that as long as the Criminal Actor (CA) was capable of killing or seriously injuring me or others, they were a threat, and my approach would be to stop the threat as quickly and effectively as could be accomplished.

Tactically, I would move/shoot based on what is best for me to accomplish my handling of my responsibilities, not the CA.

No warning before firing if the CA:

1. had a firearm
2. was capable of injuring or seazing anyone with a blade or other non-firearm weapon

Stand Your Ground means that.

 

[LiquidTension]

I'd have a real problem shooting a kid unless I was SURE the gun was real. The way I see it the situation is sorta 50/50. If the kid shoots someone because I hesitate to make sure the gun is real, I'll feel pretty bad. If I shoot the kid and it turns out the gun isn't real, that's a lot worse.

 

[2PAK]

BB GUN?

If you shoot that kid and he's holding an obvious BB Gun, you're going to jail and, you're going to loose in the court of public opinion, as well as, about $30k in lawyers fees and fees for your kids to see shrinks.

If you doubt that than see what happens when blast him with a .45 and the lawyers get you in on the stand and ask how a bb gun matches a .45 :banghead: On the other hand, if that bb gun looks like a SIG 220 replica and its pointed in your direction and you're in FEAR of your life and not playing deputy dog then

If he's not a DIRECT threat to you, scoop your family up and walk out of the store. If you get shot in the AS$ or back with BB gun, you'll live another day.

 

[novaDAK]

Is the muzzle opening BB or pellet sized? The picture you show is not what we would see if the gun were threatening us. Take a picture of the muzzle pointing at the camera and ask your question again.

Those aren't my pics, but I can tell you that the bbl of the bb gun is the diameter of a 9mm-40cal bullet, and the actual metal bbl inside it ends about an inch back inside the outer plastic bbl. It obviously looks like a bb gun at a short range, but what if someone pointed it at you from across a street, etc.
That was my point, that at a longer distance, it looks real enough to cause a threat.