View of the US legal system from a Czech bar

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Ian

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This was posted on another board by a recent US ex-pat in the Czech Republic:

I spent last night in a geniune, honest-to-God, bars-on-the-door-an'-everything speakeasy.

My new roomate took me out drinking last night to celebrate my having gotten hired yesterday afternoon. It didn't hurt that the Czech Republic was playing Slovakia either. The joint was down under what I believe was a cellphone store, down a long flight of stairs. When we got there, I was confronted with a locked, barred door and some gaurded looks until Zdanek ( roomate ) vouched for me...and then we were inside probably the most outlaw place I've ever seen in my life.

I immidiately understood the reason for the barred, locked door. On the wall, directly under where I ended up sitting, was a dud RPG round. The fins had deployed and the RCL charge had been fired, but the grenade had apparently failed to detonate. It wasn't a blue practice round, before anyone says anything...it was basic Combloc green. I did see where it had been disassembled and disarmed, but the thing had at one point been live. There weren't any scorch marks below the rocket nozzles, so it looks like the RCL charge fired but the rocket motor never ignited.

I tore my unbelieving eyes away from the explosive goodness as the game started. Half of the bar were Czechs, the other half Slovaks, but everyone there knew each other ( obviously ) and no ill will was even remotely present. Of course, this could also have had something to do with the copious quantities of alchohol and certain other substances making the rounds. The attitude toward such things here continues to amaze me; something that could send me to prison in the US ( and is still -technically illegal here ) is a normal, social thing.

After the football match was over, I spent the rest of the night being grilled by the entire bar. I was the only American there, and Zdanek was one of only two patrons who spoke English, so he and a Jewish friend of his had to translate. Mostly, people were asking me about all the horror-stories they'd heard of the States! And I was, sadly, forced to confirm their fears. Zdanek asked, wide-eyed with disbelief, if you could really go to jail for a joint. I told him about Mandatory Minimum sentancing and Three Strike laws, and he drained a half-liter of beer all in one go. A big Grizzley Adams type behind the bar wanted to know if it was true that in some American towns, you couldn't buy certain kinds of beer; I told him about the town where I went to college, where you couldn't get liquor. He looked at me as if I was nuts. Someone else wanted to know why it was that the American Gov't insisted upon punishing objects ( he mentioned marijuana and guns specifically ) instead of people who misuse them; THAT explanation took about five minutes and the fellow then said outright "I don't believe you." He had no idea how bad it had gotten; when I told him about Asset Forfeiture in the US, he looked at me as if I had come from the moon.

I'm rapidly coming to realize that the situation in the US is much, MUCH worse than I thought; maybe worse than most of us thought. Most of these folks were pretty politically aware, at least as far as the Czech Republic went, and they were flat-out horrified at the state of the States. That is, when they didn't think I was lying to impress them.
 
most people i talk to not from the US dont belive me on how bad it is here. yr ago when i was in HS nobody would belive how dangerious it was.
 
I guess it is all relative, because things dont seem that bad to me. Probably because our current system, whatever topic it may be, is all I have every known. :eek:
 
That is exactly why I am getting to feeling shame when inviting foreign friends to visit me. Used to be that US was better than USSR or other comblock countries in all or most ways...but we are as badly or worse off in some ways now...so I have to apologize for the likely fingering they'd get at Customs or TSA checkpoints.
 
UMMM UH HUH,

So why was it that they were hiding in this "Bar" behind locked doors???
Was it because the police will shoot an RPG at you for drinking and smoking??

Was it because what they were doing, drinking and smokin, was illegal there???

How is the Czech republic better exactly?? Last rock concert I went to here in the USA there was plenty of drinking and druggin going on around me, Ididnt see the police arrest anyone for it, and I also didnt see any RPG rounds being fired either.

BTW most all European countries will thouroughly search your bags entering or leaving. They may also question you as to the purpose of your visit etc.:cool:
 
US System

Is it really all the bad considering protections of the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and
14th Amendments along with relevant jurisprudence ? Not to mention the lengthy Rules of Evidence which require exclusion of illegal or tainted evidence. Plus in our adversarial system, the burden of proof is on the accuser rather than the accused.
 
It's true asset-forfiture and our drug laws our out of hand.

Drug decriminalization/legalization would probably cut our murder rate in half, and the saved jail space on drug offenders would allow us to incarcerate the remaining murderers kidnappers, armed robbers, and child molesters with "truth in sentencing" reducing our crime rate even further…

However, the upside to our legal woes are that they are at least distributed consistently and somewhat equitably. It's true that the wealthy can fight legal battles the poor cannot, but at least you get your day in court and it's public record.

No one here can tell me with a straight face that if the "bosses" in the former communist states want what you have, they can't just "get it"...

It's true that legal and political conditions in the U.S. are deplorable, but pick your poison.
 
Yes, the way things are going here we can all look forward in a few decades to a "paradise" of a crumbling, Soviet-style empire that found liberty through anarchy, neo-capitalism, and the black market.
 
I don't recall that that what are now the Czech and Slovak Republics have a long history or tradition of economic, personal or political freedom.

Their criticism of the state of affairs in the U.S. is quite justified. But, they have few lessons to teach us about regaining or maintaining such freedoms.
 
I raise the BS flag.

This really smells like someone with an axe to grind.

"punishing objects" vis a vis asset forfeiture is NOT a phrase likely to be used by an eastern European, or anyone else for that matter, who isn't schooled in libertarian rhetoric.

The whole vista of former com-bloc guys sitting around a bar grilling an American on the "horror stories" they heard about the states is _possible_, but just doesn't ring true. Let's just say that the image is more compelling than probable.

I say this having sat in a bar with a bunch of guys in the former com-bloc just last week.

The whole thing boils down to "boo hoo, we can't smoke spliffs in public, the war on drugs is bad, and so is asset forfeiture."

We already KNOW these things, that the WoD has gone overboard, there's no news there.

And...NewsFlash! Much as I think it oughtn't be, weed is illegal almost everywhere. (Notable exceptions: Portugal, Switzerland and the Netherlands)

Yeah, we got some wrinkles to iron out with regards to our own liberties, but we're a long way off from police state.
 
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I also call BS. Weed isnt legal in the czech republic either.

And Eastern Europe is a mess. Being oppressed by the mob is just as bad as being oppressed by the government. Most guns are banned (except for the government and mafia) and drugs arent far behind. Getting anything done requires bribery- people just treat whatever they have physical control over as their property, even if this flies in the face of conventional notions of civic duty.

I could go on forever, but I cant even remember half the things that are wrong in those countries. I do remember that an overabundance of freedom wasnt one of their problems.
 
BS

Count me on the calling BS list. Boo hoo, we Euros can't smoke our marijuana in the USA. :rolleyes: Before we start legalizing drugs, how many people have sat across a table from a meth user ? :eek:
 
According to this link the Czech Republic decriminalized possession of pot last year.

Also, even if they had stringent anti-drug laws, that doesn't mean they'd have US-style asset forfeiture rules.

And just to clarify, the original post makes it clear that the author is an expatriot from the United States, not a European.
 
Anyone recall the scene in Unintended Consequences when the lawyer-turned-hunting-guide returns to the US after 30 years in Africa? Same thing, really.
 
Before we start legalizing drugs, how many people have sat across a table from a meth user ?
I have. I say, legalize it all. Happy?


Guys, before all the BS calls, do your research. Czech gun laws are pretty lax.
 
Legalize and tax! Set the dosage limit on the man made stuff.

Then institute one strike you're out laws for driving under the influence.
 
I've sat across from the. Heck, I've lived next door to them.

Legalize it all.

The reason drugs like meth are so popular today is because they are so PROFITABLE today... tighten the controls and you raise the profits for those who squeek past the controls... let people buy whatever they want at the Osco down the street and frankly most won't want home-grown meth... not when they can buy real high quality uppers (the sort we give our soldiers every day to give them an edge in combat situations) for a few dollars. And if those drugs are bad, why are they being given to military pilots right this minute?
 
Before we start legalizing drugs, how many people have sat across a table from a meth user ?

If all drugs were legalized, who in the world would use meth? The only reason it exists is because it's so easy to make from basically noncontrollable materials. If anybody could grow their own weed, or buy any number of other less addictive, less dangerous, more easily acquired/grown/made drugs, nobody in the world would do meth.

The ONLY way to completely rid the world of meth is to legalize everything. It will happen nearly overnight.
 
Where's the line of U.S. folks waiting to get into Slovakia or the Czech Republic? Anybody?

Hello?

And why is I never hear about tens of thousands of Americans getting busted trying to sneak into Mexico?

Hello?

Yeah, the U.S. sucks. Not.

It's The Worst Country in the World, Except for All the Others

John...not buying the BS
 
Actually, there are a lot of expat US Citizens who go to other places for increased freedom or opportunity.

Only reason you don't see them going to Mexico in droves is the PRI's habit of taking property of non-citizens.... and yes, there are people who consider Mexico a place they can be free.

"If society fits you well enough, you call it freedom" -- Robert Frost (perhaps slightly mangled but apropos this subject).
 
Of course, the laws in the US are fine...as long as you agree with them. If you never have the desire to step across the boundary set by law, you'll probably never even notice the situation.

This board regularly discusses issues like how to distinguish between burglars and swat raids, and how one should respond to a midnightpolice raid. We almost always have at least one active thread trying to help some regular joe figure out what a given gun law actually means, because it's arcane enough that you can't tell the meaning by simply reading it. It's common knowledge, casually accepted among regular posters here that the BATFE can and does regularly break the law (or rewrite the law) to entrap people, especially people who try to challenge it.

In our little firearms niche, the corruption and inequity of the law of obvious and well known. But for a lot of us, that's only a small part of life, so we can ignore it.

But look at the serious members of most any niche interest and I believe you will find variations on the same corruption and iniquity. How many activities are there where the serious participants don't complain about government regulations?

We're so inured to it that we simply don't pay it any attention. We pay more in taxes than midieval serfs did, for goodness sake!

Now, can we use that to say that some other particular country is objectively better than the US? No, because everyone has their own values and standards to judge a place by. Some people love the US, others find Costa Rican law more to their taste, and some are right at home in Amsterdam. But regardless of our preferences, we should at least recognize where the US offers freedom and where it is as authoritarian as any socialist pit.
 
Meth

Hmm. I see that many have responded to my meth comment. I said that because I have sat across the table from meth users. (I'm not on drugs, it was at court while interning with a DA's Office.) Anyways, after seeing what drugs can do (I also saw crack addicts) I would not support any legalization.
 
i gotta chip in my .02 cents about standing against legalization. we already have a big problem with stupid people here and dope users, why make it worse by GIVING it to them and all the more that aspire to the lifestyle? *sighs*, me thinks that would only make me want to let my gf go out without me less, me want to go out less, and me want to keep my 12 ga. with me 24/7 to defend against doped up losers. think about it, the easier you make it to get, the more people that will do it and the more people that will get addicted. c'mon i know your all very brilliant here. think it out for a second from my veiw. tankies :).
 
It is interesting that in the 90s, when almost none of that stuff was illegal in the US, there wasn't a big problem here with drugs. 1890s of course. Even after prohibition (early 1900s) the problems weren't too serious. It was only when heavy efforts were made to criminalize drug use (late 1950s) that the US problem really became serious... and society really started tearing itself apart in the US.

99% of the harm you see from drugs is a product of prohibition... prohibition which was a bad idea for alcohol and a bad idea for cocain and a bad idea for canibus and a bad idea for everything else.

Why? Why did prohibition fail for alcohol? Same deal... if you block the legal supply without blocking the demand, you cause a profitable niche for ruthless people to take over.

You can argue that legal alchohol causes all sorts of problems... drunk parents, drunk driving, all sorts of negative health impacts... but the reality is that prohibition didn't stop those things from happening... it just caused a new wave of bad things like criminal gangs, otherwise law-abiding citizens becoming criminals, and so on.

Same is true with drugs. Legalizing won't prevent certain people from using drugs, even being harmed by drugs... but it will prevent the greater harm of society being torn apart and tens of thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens being imprisoned, being lured by the reality of 30000% (that's no typo) profits on drug growing/manufacturing into comitting crimes, and so on.

Same is true with guns. Legalizing them (or keeping them legal) won't prevent certain people from using guns to commit crimes, or being harmed by guns.... but it will prevent the greater harm of society being torn apart.
 
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