Wa 594

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We may have figured out a way to still swap rifles without breaking the soon-to-be law concerning transfers. Since we both shoot AR15 pattern rifles, we just try out each others uppers. The AR15 is about to become the rifle to own in WA, lol.

Anyway, the backers of 594 are already gloating, and stating "this is just the beginning".

Get ready for more, and more and more.

They've also stated Oregon is next.
Bloomberg says he is on the way to save Oregon just as he helped save Washington.

Yeah, ARs and other modular guns will be the gun of choice .. However, I wouldn't be so sure that the government would not enact prohibitions to even selling gun parts and accessories in private sales as an appendage to the I-594 bill. Just a matter of time.
 
Yeah, the sheeple in this state have just voted away our rights. NW Arizona is looking MUCH better now- only have a few years before I can retire.
 
It's a problem of Heisenberg, you see, because by moving to Arizona to flee Washingtonian culture, you will end up both changing your new destination simply through the process of adapting to it (the 'ol "give and take" of human interaction), and your old residence by attracting other not-so-like-minded Washingtonians to follow you as well, when they hear of your happiness/success and want it for themselves (and likely with little appreciation for why you had to leave in order to find it). I only bring this up, because "Go AZ/TX/etc." is such a constant refrain from those in the worst anti-gun cesspools currently operating, which have already 'turned' numerous other previously free regions (inadvertently or at worst carelessly) through their mass emigration.

I grew up in Washington (Vancouver), so I saw firsthand how wrong-headed the place was (a greater emphasis on salmon-taxonomy than grammar, on the impact of deforestation over civics, over past crimes towards Indians than on how to build a successful life as a young adult). The eventual move to Texas made the delusions of my previous home's residents all the more apparent. There's no 'reality check' for people who already live in paradise (I noticed this insanity among residents of Kawaii during an extended and wonderful trip, as well), so don't bother trying to convince them. I think the best hope for Washingtonian gunnies is to work quickly to get gun freedom tangled up with marijuana freedom, and get some language/case law written that covers both (i.e. a law against laws against contraband). As it stands, the majority can screw over gun owners in the Eastern Boondocks (sorry, I've been to Eastern Washington many times; it is a gorgeous, wonderful, and empty backwater. Give up any delusions of dictating state-level policy so you won't waste your precious resources on the impossible) with very little consequence to themselves. Is it any wonder they choose to?

TCB
 
Evergreen: "Bloomberg says he is on the way to save Oregon just as he helped save Washington."

Yep . . . they're making their move to do the same thing in other states.
This ain't nothing about 'safety' guys . . . its about grabbing your guns. Are some people still confused about this ?

In a few years they'll complain about 'the enforcement loophole' and insist that the only way to make it all work is to register every single gun. (No way to prove that you got a gun before the law was passed legally.) And from registration its a short step to confiscation. Same thing has happened throughout history and all over the globe.

Of course, 'laws' are just for all us serfs. The paid off politicians and their masters get away with all sorts of things. Heck they write the laws. (Ever hear of insider trading ? Congress made it legal for them. And O 'care' - Congress & their staffs are exempt. Selling out does have its benefits.) They have unlimited money to use in various media campaigns (using the same tactics to overthrow foreign governments). Heck, they could gin up the media they own to get people to put themselves in leg irons & electronic collars 'for their safety' and get the sheep to like it & think it was 'trendy' ! And since the electronic 'voting' machines cannot be audited, who knows what the actual vote was.

And ya wouldn't contemplate leaving this state because of some house you might buy ? Really ? "Give me Liberty . . . or give me a mortgage !"

P.S. - well, as you can tell by the rant above, though I'm not surprised by what the city fools vote for in this state . . . I am ticked off about it. I am venting a bit.
 
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If you want to see a vision of Washington's future, just look at Illinois!!
People and jobs leaving in droves, bankrupt, politicians going to prison, crime out of control, gang shootings, etc.

Ain't life GRAND??
:barf:
 
What does 594 mean for private sales? I mean, I guess an actual FFL will need to act as an intermediary now (to do the background check), but private sales are still okay, right? Is a violation of this part of the law a misdemeanor or a felony?

This really sucks. A couple dozen guys from my church have an annual retreat in February where they go out to a private campground and hold a shooting competition for a weekend. 2015 was supposed to be my first year going. Guess that won't be happening now.

Private sales through dealer are okay. Illegal sales are Class A misdemeanor the first time and Class C felony every time after.

It's a problem of Heisenberg, you see, because by moving to Arizona to flee Washingtonian culture, you will end up both changing your new destination simply through the process of adapting to it (the 'ol "give and take" of human interaction), and your old residence by attracting other not-so-like-minded Washingtonians to follow you as well, when they hear of your happiness/success and want it for themselves (and likely with little appreciation for why you had to leave in order to find it). I only bring this up, because "Go AZ/TX/etc." is such a constant refrain from those in the worst anti-gun cesspools currently operating, which have already 'turned' numerous other previously free regions (inadvertently or at worst carelessly) through their mass emigration.

I only socialize with like-minded people. So only like minded people will follow.

I was reading an article about third parties, and it said for third parties to be successful they need to concentrate on getting a lot of votes in a small area instead of a small portion of votes over a large area. That’s one analogy for voting with my feet by moving to a friendlier state.

Like I said, I have commitments, so I’m not planning on moving yet. But it is tempting now…
 
I hope I'm being too alarmist but I fear that WA state has turned the corner (for the worse) for good.

It actually lasted longer than I expected...a solid blue state but with a light touch on gun control.


Please tell me that I'm wrong but I see the social environment ready for the next initiative to limit magazine capacity, ban "assault weapons" and so on.....


All the elements are in place and now they got the critical mass of antigunners to get the votes they need for other gun control initiatives...you can count on that.


Watch out for Texas....a lot of people from California are moving there to escape the stifling taxation and bad government that they created for themselves.


I agree that we may see some isolated victory here and there but I believe the country is moving towards more gun control....


Can someone with a legal background explain to me how such a solid, clear cut language in the 2A (the right of people to bear arms) could be chopped up and cooked at will like a stew by every state?? 50 different concealed permits, so many different byzantine regulations, etc...
 
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Can someone with a legal background explain to me how such a solid, clear cut language in the 2A (the right of people to bear arms) could be chopped up and cooked at will like a stew by every state?? 50 different concealed permits, so many different byzantine regulations, etc...
I'm sure this will be corrected as it isn't a legal/historical explanation, but this question can be answered through good old fashioned common sense.

Since it has been decided both historically and in modern times that it does in fact refer to the general public, rather than any sort of organized military, the value/power of the Second Amendment rests on the interpretation of the last four words: "...shall not be infringed."

The question is, what did the author of the Constitution intend when he used the word infringe? Synonyms include encroach, violate, and trespass - and they all meant the same things in the late 1700s. Do those words allude to an outright severance (complete elimination) of a right, or the impediment (trimming back) of a right?

I would most definitely say an impediment of my right is an infringement. Obviously, SCOTUS disagrees; and as Frank Ettin would say, "your opinion doesn't matter [unless you happen to be a US Supreme Court Justice - and you don't]" - which, unfortunately, is as true as it is frustrating; that is to say, entirely.

If SCOTUS interpreted "infringe" to mean "impede", the NFA would be unconstitutional (as would bullet buttons, magazine capacity restrictions, gun free zones, ALL concealed-carry licensing processes and restrictions, etc, etc). Instead, "infringed" is interpreted as "severed," and so it's determined that the Constitution allows for us to have our gun rights modified (trimmed back), but not eliminated completely.

That's really all there is to it.
 
" Can someone with a legal background explain to me how such a solid, clear cut language in the 2A (the right of people to bear arms) could be chopped up and cooked at will like a stew by every state?? 50 different concealed permits, so many different byzantine regulations, etc... "

That's a huge question that would take this thread off in many directions. Just do a web search on the writings and audio/video interviews of Edwin Vieira. He knows this subject. Has a PhD and a law degree (JD) from Harvard. Argued cases before the US Supreme Court.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/02/...nd-sovereignty-and-where-the-us-went-wrong-2/
 
How? Because our laws are treated as guidelines by politicians.

ObamaCare gets passed, and then parts delayed by the branch that is supposed to enforce it.
NY sage act has no provision for cops, so they choose not to enforce it on cops until they can get it ammended.
Many laws are broken by high ranking politicians who plead ignorance and are going off of the ask for forgiveness instead of permission philosophy.

As to 2A? What is a well regulated militia? Did the founders have machine guns in mind? The 2A is outdated and should be repealed, after all, slavery and misogyny were prominent in the original draft and those have changed. The police and military protect you.

All of these are arguments people believe. The problem is democracy. A republic is what the founders were going for, where the power of government is limited. Unfortunately in democracy, the government can convince people to give up their power.

I personally think 2A is poorly worded, or at least in modern day it is.
 
I wonder how 594 could possibly be enforced. Right now, under State preemption, if you visit a courthouse with a firearm, the courthouse must provide secure storage; lockbox, deputy, ect. That is a law, not a suggestion or recommendation, but state law. So if I need to appear in court, or need to renew my CPL, and I enter the courthouse; do I need to wait ten days to transfer it to the deputy, and do I need to wait another ten days to get it back when I'm finished? Will the courthouse provide a FFL holder to affect the transfer?

I think in their glee to write a draconian law that serves only to harass gun owners, they may have bit off more than they were able to chew. The initiative process is also pretty strict about each initiative containing only one subject. Initiates that contained two or more subjects were overruled if I recall correctly.

I don’t think this is over yet.
 
I personally think 2A is poorly worded, or at least in modern day it is.

I do not agree...I think is worded very clearly but politicians and "social engineers" often like to fiddle with words and make it more complicated than it is.....Hillary Clinton said once that "of course she wants to preserve the ability of sportsmen to practice hunting".....when you deal with that kind of malicious, bad faith, twisted interpretation, it does not matter how straightforward and easy to understand a something is written....
 
If its for official business a check isn't required. Not sure specifically about handing it to a court official, but they did mention that government agents are exempt while on duty to at least some extent.

You are right, though. It is unenforceable without registration, which means either it is a law that law abiders will follow and criminals will not, or there's registration and criminals will still get guns from other sources. Probably ATF ;)
 
Saturno, the problems that I have are 1) it doesn't mention individuals and 2) it doesn't mention individual protection.
 
Everyone knows what it is going to take to stop the tyranny that is rapidly advancing in America but the costs to speaking out are very high. Remember the founders lost everything they had, including freedom and lives in some cases. Only when enough Americans are at the point that the founders were will something be done to stop the advance of this tyranny. It does not matter the political party anymore. The agencies that enforce all this crap go on and on no matter who is in office. They will only enforce punishment on responsible citizens...illegals and the lazy welfare dolts get a pass. I am truly sad for my grandkids...America could have been a good place for another couple of centuries with the resources we have...
 
I live in Oregon and I feel for you all in WA. I truly do.

My sense is Oregon is now low hanging fruit for the antigunners. Election results were grim at best in the state house and senate. I am sure we will be voting on a 594 like measure in two years as well.

So.......... Idaho, Utah, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana? (Big game hunting important too)Not sure which one yet but reality is staring me in the face.

See you all in a more freedom friendly state. Someday soon.
 
We should stand and fight, but we'll need to fight together. I encourage you to move to one of the states mentioned above and fight there. Scattered to the wind and spread across liberal states our votes add up to nothing, but your presence in a gun friendly state helps to keep it that way. Move to Texas and stand with other patriots to protect our rights and keep the gun grabbers a minority. Our new governor elect has already said he would sign an open carry bill and our economy is strong.
 
I think it might be a good idea for us in Washington to take some of our shooting money and put it towards pro 2A organizations instead of our personal collections.

Specifically thinking of NRA-ILA, NAGR, or other such foundations.

I may also contact them and see if there's other things I can do to help raise awareness of these issues.
 
Instead the sneaky Washington State government has imposed an unconstitutional "Use Tax" on all firearm transfers.

Actually the "Use Tax" applies to ALL sales of anything from out of state or within the state that haven't had sales tax collected. (And has been since 1935.) Unfortunately (for the state) there is no reasonable way to enforce this as it is supposed to be submitted by the buyer to the state tax department. This even includes items bought privately at garage sales, etc.
594 specifically says the dealer will collect only sales tax on whatever he charges for the service. So, unless they change the current forms that are reported to the state to include sales price (and even if they do) I foresee a lot of $1.00 gun sales.

I also think that if they do start enforcing the use tax on gun transfers that a strong case could be made to enforce it on all sales of any type including garage sales, etc. Good luck with that! Unequal enforcement of a law (Use Tax) should be enough to get it thrown out in court.
 
Originally posted by BSA1: Texas gun laws are overrated. They do not allow Open Carry.

Hopefully this will change when Gov-elect Greg Abbott takes office. He has said that he will work for Open Carry in the past. I just hope that the people at Open Carry Texas have not generated enough negative publicity to muddy the waters.
 
Skribs: " As to 2A? What is a well regulated militia? Did the founders have machine guns in mind? The 2A is outdated and should be repealed, after all, slavery and misogyny were prominent in the original draft and those have changed. The police and military protect you."

I respectfully submit that the above statement is both uninformed and childishly naive. It shows a lack of understanding of history. Unfortunately, too many of us are in the same boat. Before we spout off, we should do the actual research. Again, as I mentioned above, Edwin Vieira is a true expert. Check out what he's written if you want an informed opinion.
 
I stopped in at Olympic Arms yesterday. The guy I talked to said that if you're shopping for a gun, you can't even hold it before you buy it.

Who is going to buy a gun they can't even touch?

I think this will effectively kill gun shops in WA state. What is to prevent people of WA to just visit another state, buy a gun there, and then bring it back in to WA?
 
You can't pick up a gun before you buy it???? Is this serious..cause it's maybe the dumbest law I've ever heard of in the many years I've been around.

Thank god I live in dixie......head down here now Washington fellas and flee the ridiculousness. We will welcome y'all with open arms and smiles. We want more good folks down here.
 
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