Walk of Shame

[hso]

a case could be made against the employee and/or the store of stealing one’s personal property

I'm not an attorney, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I'd be interested in the question of whether that particular behavior is a transfer issue since they store and their representative has transferred the firearm legally to you, but then retains it.

 

[Howland937]

It comes down to the basic stuff for me, just like the places requiring masks even if the govt doesn't require it. It's not a law, but it's company policy. We have the choice as individuals to decide what we're ok with. The decision to enter their property is a non-verbal agreement to abide by their policies AFAIC.

 

[Cannibul]

Walmart makes you wait 3 business days regardless of your state's law before they walk you out the door. I was wondering how they did with a customer before me who bought 12 of those closeout rifles. I don't get their logic; if they think after passing a BG check and having a CWFL and NOT buying ammo for the gun I just bought, that I am going to open fire in their store with a bolt action rifle, someone at Corporate has their head where the sun doesn't shine.
And even if I WAS going to do something like that, once I am out of the store, there is nothing to prevent me from going to my vehicle and grabbing some ammo and returning.

After the way I was treated, and with ZERO response or help after calling corporate, I am done shopping there anyway.

Chalk this one up to stupid stuff you heard at a gun counter and believed.

It's certainly not happening here in Texas.

 

[George P]

As I said, this was repeated by the store manager and someone from Arkansas Corporate.............so maybe it is a Florida thing.

 

[gonoles_1980]

I've only bought guns at a local gun shop, Bass Pro Shop or had them delivered to my local range pro shop where I pick them up. Never had anyone escort me out.

 

[entropy]

Walmart makes you wait 3 business days regardless of your state's law before they walk you out the door.

This is one where I have to disagree with you. I work at Walmart, and my best friend is the Sporting Goods Mgr. at our store. I recently picked up a Savage Axis II .223 on clearance for $79, and completed the sale from getting the gun out of the locker in back to walking out the (back) door, in 15 minutes. I did it on my lunch hour. It is not a Walmart policy to make anyone wait 3 business days. It may be your State's laws, or maybe your NICS checks come back delayed, maybe some other reason, but it is not a Walmart policy. As you surmised, most likely a Florida policy.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have heard Walmart had a customer buy a gun and commit suicide in the store.
So to settle quicker and easier with the lawyers, they agreed to the "walk" policy.
If it actually stopped suicidal people from committing suicide in the store, you would expect to read about suicides in the parking lots.

Among insurgencies world-wide the diesel engine Toyota pickup truck is the choice for mounting weapons systems to make tactical assault vehicles. Maybe purchasers of diesel engine Toyota pickup trucks should only be allowed to take possession of their vehicle on the street off the car lot. (Common sense dictates we must do something about insurgents with assault vehicles.)

By the same logic, people buying video recording equipment ought to be given a "walk of shame" because of court cases where pornographers were convicted of videoing exploited minors.

 

[Armybrat]

Had to do the “walk of shame” unexpectedly 12 years ago. It was the first and last time. I have not bought a gun from a big box store since.

 

[George P]

This is one where I have to disagree with you. I work at Walmart, and my best friend is the Sporting Goods Mgr. at our store. I recently picked up a Savage Axis II .223 on clearance for $79, and completed the sale from getting the gun out of the locker in back to walking out the (back) door, in 15 minutes. I did it on my lunch hour. It is not a Walmart policy to make anyone wait 3 business days. It may be your State's laws, or maybe your NICS checks come back delayed, maybe some other reason, but it is not a Walmart policy. As you surmised, most likely a Florida policy.

It is not FL law when you have a CWFL; that was repeated to me over and over that it is a corporate policy. Even when I showed up at 2:30 after the three wait period ended at 2:20PM, they said theiur computer system would not allow the release until 8PM so I have to make 3 45 mile roundtrip drives for this gun. As a result, they lost a 40 year customer. And Corporate was notified; I was told someone would get back to me in a day - that never happened.

 

[entropy]

Ok, I get it. Yes, that part is a Walmart policy, but I think it only applies if you try to use a CCW to expidite the sale in certain states. I'll be honest, I don't even know if that would apply if I tried to use my WI CCL, because I never have tried to. You are not the first person here who noticed that their CCL held up a sale at Walmart, perhaps it goes by state. I do not know whether your sale would have proceeded faster if you had not presented your CWFL. I understand your frustration with Walmart's policies, I have to deal with them 40 hours a week.

 

[Ernie Bass]

The most violent thing I have seen in a Walmart Store is two female cash register girls get into one mighty fine fight. I mean the type of fight you would pay tickets to see. It took about 5 managers to break it up.

 

[entropy]

I've seen some interesting stuff; like I said, I spend 40 hours a week there. Usually it's people who are off their meds, or the archetypal Karen.

 

[dogtown tom]

.....The issue that I am looking to determine is what legal basis, if any, a store has to not immediately hand over the gun to the customer.

Again, the transfer of possession from licensed dealer to buyer/transferee is not complete until the licensee hands the firearm to the transferee. I wrote that in your first thread.
If the licensee decides to hold the gun a week, after you pass NICS? Sure, he can do that. No federal law requires a dealer to hand over possession until the dealer decides to do so. In fact ATF tells dealers that if the buyer has passed NICS and the dealer becomes suspicious of a straw sale or by the buyers behavior......he can lawfully cancel the transaction.

Additionally, does the store place itself and it’s employees in a legal (both criminally and civilly) quagmire if the customer requests that the store personnel immediately handover the gun that they just paid for and the store personnel refuse to do so?

Again......are you serious? Is your understand of state statutes regarding theft of property that ill informed? Forget the ATF regulations and lets focus on this sillyness. If you "buy" a car, writing a check for the full amount, do you start calling 911 and yelling "thief" because they didn't hand you the keys immediately? No, you don't, because you would look like an idiot. Never go to Whataburger, those thieves make you pay at the first window, then don't immediately give you the Whatameal #5 with grilled onions and grilled jalapenos until you get to the second window. Those high school kids don't understand their "legal quagmire" for not handing over my food that I paid for immediately.

No doubt, walking the buyer to the door is dumb. But more dumb is thinking that theft has occured. I'm embarrassed that mods let this second thread live this long. It should have been apparent at the closing of your first thread.

 

[jdh]

I'm in uniform. Buy Shotgun. Manager carries box out and puts it in the trunk of the patrol car, closes the trunk, walks off shaking his head.

 

[Sistema1927]

It's not just Walmart. I purchased a pistol at Cabelas, and they also put me through the "walk". As we were heading to the exit I told the employee that I was sure glad that they were protecting others from this unloaded gun while I was carrying a loaded one concealed on my person.

 

[Howland937]

Wanna really get their attention...after looking and deciding to buy a rifle, I got a delay. 3 days later I return to take possession of my new rifle, glance to make sure it's the right one, and walk to the door with the manager who hands over my freshly taped box 'o rifle. Get home, prepare to mount my scope and realize they hadn't removed the trigger lock. Customer service won't answer the phone the next day, so I carry the rifle in its box to the service desk. That didn't go over well.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The most violent thing I have seen in a Walmart Store is two female cash register girls get into one mighty fine fight. I mean the type of fight you would pay tickets to see. It took about 5 managers to break it up.

You could've at least videoed it

 

[giggitygiggity]

Again......are you serious? Is your understand of state statutes regarding theft of property that ill informed? Forget the ATF regulations and lets focus on this sillyness. If you "buy" a car, writing a check for the full amount, do you start calling 911 and yelling "thief" because they didn't hand you the keys immediately? No, you don't, because you would look like an idiot. Never go to Whataburger, those thieves make you pay at the first window, then don't immediately give you the Whatameal #5 with grilled onions and grilled jalapenos until you get to the second window. Those high school kids don't understand their "legal quagmire" for not handing over my food that I paid for immediately.

No doubt, walking the buyer to the door is dumb. But more dumb is thinking that theft has occured. I'm embarrassed that mods let this second thread live this long. It should have been apparent at the closing of your first thread.

Hey Dogtown Tom, a “?” denotes a question. I ask questions so that I can learn. Do I think that a call to police reporting theft because a store did not immediately hand over a gun constitutes theft? I doubt it. Do I think a judge would entertain a civil suit to the benefit of the plantiff on those grounds? I doubt it. That said, I am not an attorney, but I am interested in the law and its nuances. Additionally, there are stories of people being arrested and/or sued for things far more mundane. For instance, I’m certain that most of us on THR believe it is asinine that family members of victims sue gun shops for lawfully selling a gun to someone who then used it in a crime or sue gun manufacturers for making a gun that is used in a shooting; yet, it still happens. Had I stated (not asked, but stated) that the store and its employees may place themselves in a legal quagmire, then perhaps it would be within reason to question my understanding, but I instead asked a question.

By the way Dogtown Tom, from what law school did you graduate? I ask because you should request a refund. My question was about the legalities of the walk of shame and you stated “Forget the ATF regulations and lets focus on this sillyness.” You completely undermined the purpose of my OP which was to determine what we may gleam from the law (to include ATF regulations) regarding the walk of shame process. Furthermore, doing something because “you would look like an idiot” does not impact whether or not an action is legal/within one’s rights.

I’ll credit you with a poor attempt at trying to explain some law as it relates to firearm transfers. Do you have any documentation to support your claims? It’d be nice to see it from an authoritative source (ATF publication, law, stature, etc) to see how such a scenario is worded regarding “possession,” “transfer,” etc instead of the loose choice of words used in your post.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I've never experienced this procedure. But then, the "big box" stores around here (Walmart, Dick's, etc.) don't sell guns. (Even when they did, they didn't have this procedure.)

Legally, the stores are within their rights. As a customer, you're an "invitee" who must abide by their rules. The store isn't a public area.

Thanks! I appreciate your clear, concise response.

It’s nice when someone reads the OP and addresses the actual question/issue without adding assumptions and superfluous opinions.

Mods, AlexanderA answered this one so you can close the thread as you as fit. Thanks!

 

[dogtown tom]

Hey Dogtown Tom, a “?” denotes a question. I ask questions so that I can learn. Do I think that a call to police reporting theft because a store did not immediately hand over a gun constitutes theft? I doubt it.

Yet you asked if that was theft. It's not. It's an embarrassing question by you.

Do I think a judge would entertain a civil suit to the benefit of the plantiff on those grounds? I doubt it.

Yet again, it was a question yoou asked. If you really "doubt it" then you should already know the answer. And a judge doesn't "entertain", he rules on the merits of a case.

That said, I am not an attorney, but I am interested in the law and its nuances. Additionally, there are stories of people being arrested and/or sued for things far more mundane. For instance, I’m certain that most of us on THR believe it is asinine that family members of victims sue gun shops for lawfully selling a gun to someone who then used it in a crime or sue gun manufacturers for making a gun that is used in a shooting; yet, it still happens. Had I stated (not asked, but stated) that the store and its employees may place themselves in a legal quagmire, then perhaps it would be within reason to question my understanding, but I instead asked a question.

You asked a question that on its face is ridiculous. My example of Whataburger was meant to show how ridiculous your theory is.

By the way Dogtown Tom, from what law school did you graduate? I ask because you should request a refund.

I'm not holding myself out as a lawyer. I do however have enough common sense to know a dumb question when I see one and I've watched many, many episodes of Law and Order.

My question was about the legalities of the walk of shame and you stated “Forget the ATF regulations and lets focus on this sillyness.” You completely undermined the purpose of my OP which was to determine what we may gleam from the law (to include ATF regulations) regarding the walk of shame process.

Well, I said forget about ATF regs because they state the transfer is not complete until the licensee says so. That should have ended your "legal quagmire" right there. But nooooooo...........you started a new thread asking the same darn question! Soooo..........putting aside what ATF says, I pointed out the sheer nonsense of your assumption that a crime or civil cause occurs if the big box doesn't hand over your purchase immediately.

Furthermore, doing something because “you would look like an idiot” does not impact whether or not an action is legal/within one’s rights.

Not understanding WHY you would look like an idiot is the issue. That's because a theft has not occurred.

I’ll credit you with a poor attempt at trying to explain some law as it relates to firearm transfers. Do you have any documentation to support your claims? It’d be nice to see it from an authoritative source (ATF publication, law, stature, etc) to see how such a scenario is worded regarding “possession,” “transfer,” etc instead of the loose choice of words used in your post.

Good grief. Nope, not gonna do it. You "credited" me with "a poor attempt at trying to explain some law as it relates to firearm transfers"........so I'm going to let you educate yourself. No need for me to do research you can do yourself.

But I'll give you a hint....Read the Form 4473. Then read EVERYTHING at atf.gov and then come back and tell us how smart you are.

 

[Ernie Bass]

Thanks! I appreciate your clear, concise response.

It’s nice when someone reads the OP and addresses the actual question/issue without adding assumptions and superfluous opinions.

Mods, AlexanderA answered this one so you can close the thread as you as fit. Thanks!

Superfluous was the title to your thread, no need for the Walk of Shame nonsense. And do not even understand what is the problem. You bought a gun and they transferred it to you . End of story. If they want to do it at the counter or the door should not be written in law. Again, big ado over absolutely nothing.
Sounds like someone looking for a frivolous law suit because they were personally offended. And I would bet they do it to all customers, not just certain people they do not like. And I am going to take a wild guess and say that their Corporate Lawyers are not worried about such nonsense.

 

[GEM]

Exactly, what are your damages? Do you know how long lawsuits take against a giant corporation? Years. Who's going to take the case on contingency. Here's what they will do. They will tell you that at time of purchase - before you paid, they said they will walk the gun to the door. Prove they didn't do that.

The whole thing has been gone over enough. It is not a real issue.

Closed.