wanting a .308 rifle ~$1000

[justin22885]

ive decided that where i live, 5.56 just doesnt have the range or power, its all flat and open.. i want a rifle that has the added range and energy.. i used to own an M1A and a PTR91, but the M1A may be out of my budget which i'm setting to about $1,000 and the PTR was a bit of a PITA to clean, very heavy, and not all that much more accurate than gas operated rifles, plus it tends to be more rough on brass

so im looking for something .308/7.62x51, and under $1000, and can shoot 2MOA groups with average ammo. i believe this leaves me with the FAL and yugo M77 as my last two options.. a third option of mine is to build the one ive been working on designing myself but i would have to outsource local machine shops to make certain parts (like the trunnion, bolt carrier and bolt) so that's going to likely blow budget as well

any suggestions?

 

[chris in va]

An AR-10 of some flavor? Used perhaps?

 

[justin22885]

i dont know about that, im not a big AR fan.. i did add a bit more criteria that i forgot to add before, and thats that i would like a rifle capable of 2MOA with average, non match ammo, this could end up being a problem for the FAL, i dont see too many of them shooting under 3MOA groups

if i bought an FAL receiver and parts kit to assemble one myself, and hand-select some upgraded parts along the way, what exactly would it take to put together a 2MOA FAL?

 

[chris in va]

Browning BAR? I don't know what accuracy a VEPR 308 has.

 

[justin22885]

i dont see too much benefit to a vepr over a yugo M77 and the yugo is much less expensive, also, im looking for a military rifle using inexpensive 20-round mags

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I know you said you don't really like the AR platform but you can customize it to make it fit you well and get a 1 MOA rifle or less in an AR10 type rifle for around $1k. Plus if you choose the right lower you can use cheap 20 round P-Mags.

 

[justin22885]

id still rather deal with a 4MOA FAL or spend an extra $200 on an M1A than to put money into a platform i dont like and cant trust

 

[Casefull]

You might not like the ar platform but that is where the accuracy is at in semi auto battle type rifles. I have a rock river, dpms, and am putting together a psa. They run fine for me. I have a hk91 which is a great rifle but not as accurate as the ars.

 

[Robert]

Building a FAL is not a simple undertaking and nothing about them is inexpensive. It can be done but the tools and the parts needed are somewhat expensive. I love my FAL, which was built from a parts kit, but i had a smith do the build as it was cheaper in the long run that buying all the tools.

I am rather curious why you say you can't trust an AR pattern rifle. Keep in mind that the AR10 and AR15 are totally different rifles.

 

[justin22885]

i know the AR-10 and AR-15 are different, im also aware of what those differences are, and i've even used and designed around AR lowers in the past for some of my own rifle designs ive been working on, i can even tell you the axis of the bore of the rifle is about .125" further from the bottom of the upper receiver on the AR10 than the AR-15, so im very familiar with it on a level most people arent and in that familiarity i've decided i just dont like it, i dont view them as being all that reliable when i have AKs and have had PTR91s to compare, and i view them as somewhat fragile and overengineered with way too many small parts, springs, detents, etc just to maintain normal function

id have no issues building an FAL, i know what it entails and i do have most the tools, but i would have to start out basic with a parts kit on top of a new receiver and then make upgrades and/or improvements from there, like eventually id want a paratrooper side folding lower receiver.. the question with the FAL is what does it actually take to improve accuracy?.. why do they have a reputation for not being all that accuracy? barrel quality/condition? the common pitfalls of the tilting block design? im curious to know what would need to be done

also, if im not confident i can improve the accuracy of the FAL to 2MOA, and i for some reason change my mind on the yugo M77, then i would probably save up a couple hundred more for the M1A, but i should be able to get an FAL parts kit and receiver or yugo rifle for much less than that and spend the rest on ammo supplies

 

[Jackal]

I sold my Vepr .308 to get my PTR91. Its so easy to takedown and clean it ridiculous. Pull 2 pins and it falls apart, same as an AR. It does weigh about 11lbs with a scope though, nearly double what my Colt 6720 weighs. The weight is a boon for me, since I dont carry it far and its a pussycat in the recoil dept. If I have to pack a rifle any distance, its going to be the 6lb AR, not the 11lb DMR style rifle.

 

[Robert]

Well it seems you have all your bases covered. Get whatever you like.

The FAL was designed to be a battle rifle that was reliable in just about any conditions, except for sand as it turns out. The tolerances are a bit more forgiving which limits the accuracy. I have seen guys spend a lot of money trying make a FAL a presicion rifle, only to give up and buy an M1A or AR10 because either one is more accurate out of the box. If you want a rifle that will hold moa or better all day long the FAL is not it. Mine will hold 1-2 moa with my handloads, but then those are just average loads. 2 moa or worse with factory ammo. Though I rarely ever shoot for groups. It will hit a steel torso sized target at 400m center mass with iron sights all day long. I see no need to improve on that.

 

[jr_roosa]

What about a CMP Garand special grade chambered in .308? My .30-06 special gets about 2moa with SMK 175 handloads.

Just a thought, especially if you liked the M1A.

-J.

 

[carbine85]

The AR platform is hard to beat. I recently bought a DPMS G2 Hunter for $1250 after rebate. It shoots sub MOA with heavy rounds. It should get the job done for you.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Mossberg MVP Patrol. I, like you, considered all of the other inexpensive battle rifle options and finally decided on a scout configuration. The MVP takes AR style magazines including M1A, M14, LR 308 and SR 25 mags. I haven't bought one yet but that's my next gun purchase. Just a thought for you to consider if you weren't dead set on a semi auto.

 

[fragout]

After owning a FAL as well as an HK91, I would suggest saving up the funds for an M1A. A Std or Scout should shoot well enough to meet your requirements using a wide range of factory ammunition.
SAI has a deal going on right now stating that anyone who buys an M1a can pick up 3 twenty rd mags at no additional charge...... so you end up with a rifle plus 4 mags. ( 1 ten rd and three 20rd)

 

[sevt_chevelle]

How about a FN FNAR?

http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autoloading-rifles/

 

[HJ857]

FNAR with an ACE stock adapter and AK grip. The stock adapter can be used with a standard AR type tube or in a side folder configuration.

http://riflestocks.com/store/product111.html



It will exceed your budget though and mags are on the pricey side, and it's more complex to fully strip than an AR style rifle. On the other hand you almost never have to disassemble it and it's not like it's brain surgery or something.

They shoot lights out and are getting much harder to find.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

FWIW, you can build one for less than your budget by buying a Rem 700 SPS (either slim barrel or Varmint), a Bell & Carlson M40 stock (approx. $210) for roughly $860. You can put a nice scope (Burris) on it with bases for $360. I have a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in .308 Win, that I free-floated in a Bell & Carlson A5 stock, using a Dremel tool for adjustment, put a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP scope in Leupy bases and rings for $1,915 total cost...and it produces consistent 0.50" 100 yard groups with my hand loads and has given me 1 MOA groups out to 600 yards.

Just some thoughts.

Harry

 

[justin22885]

so, what do you guys think constitutes a 2MOA FAL?

 

[JFtheGR8]

2" groups at 100 yards, 4" groups at 200 yards, etc...

 

[Conelrad]

A good used rifle from a benevolent seller will probably be your outcome.

What you want is pretty short $-wise today.

Dennis

 

[scythefwd]

There is a myriad of bolt action rifles that will cost you under 1k with a scope that will be more than suitable rifles.

Remmy 700
Tikka T3
Howa 1500
Savage in most varieties

and the list keeps going on and on and on. Most of those will be sub moa with handloads. Did I miss a requirement for it to be semi-auto somewhere in that post?

 

[IWAC]

Depends on proposed use. Holding off the Barbarian Hordes? Scoped or iron sights ? Maybe a reasonable-cost bolt action, Remington, Ruger or Weatherby in something like 243? They can also be had in 7.65/.308 . I haven't czeched H&K prices lately, but, they make a heck of a good rifle! G91 or 93, I forget which is the .308.
Good luck in your search.

 

[justin22885]

no, i dont want a bolt action, im looking for a solid go-to rifle, a semi automatic that feeds from 20 round mags.. if i was going to go for a bolt action id probably get an ishapor enfield or stick with 8mm in a mauser but im looking specifically for a semi.. if i dont think i can achieve 2MOA in an FAL with some future upgrades ($1000k is my initial budget, doesnt include upgrades, mods, or accessories), then i will get the yugo M77