wanting a full size pistol

[Zerodefect]

just kind of off topic.. but im getting REALLY sick and tired of firearm manufacturers of late.. theres been a lot of corner cutting and other cost saving moves that seem to be leaving gun owners with cheaper made, and in my opinion lower quality products.. besides the 1911 and the CZ-75, does anyone even make a steel framed pistol?.. the few metal frames stuff that exists have went over to aluminum because its cheaper.. but aluminum also wears faster, id rather have a plastic frame pistol with steel inserts than aluminum

and plastic?.. screw plastic, so you save a few ounces on weight?.. whoopdie do, if its a pocket gun where a few ounces actually matter, great, fantastic, but for a full size duty/range/military/TEOTWAWKI/go-to pistol, id rather have something more durable.. something that can be burned, shot, heck whenever i see steel framed pistols suffer a double charge, it ruins the mag, maybe destroys the extractor but they for the most part can be repaired.. double charge in a pastic gun you usually end up with your hand torn up and the gun totaled..

you cant convince me they will last as long as steel but still theyre pushed off on us as being "lightweight" "wont corrode".. but as states a few extra pounds and cleaning once in a blue moon its not even an issue, i feel theyre being pushed on us because they can be mass produced for pennies on the dollar while the gun manufacturers make millions more

honestly.. i dont want to support any of the major gun manufacturers anymore

anyway.. end rant

It's not just cost cutting. For example Kimber, they use MIM not just to cut cost, but for parts availability. Go ahead and try to order 50,000 Wilson bulletproof thumb safeties with a drop in specification. Not going to happen.

Many all steel pistols are long gone, because they're obsolete.
Either a 1911 or a Glock does everything they do, better. So why bother producing them. Especially since they don't sell.

If I blow up a Glock or 1911 with a bad reload, I throw it away. Don't waste money rebuilding it. Unless only the frame and mag failed or something. But still, throw those parts away and build a new.

 

[AK103K]

Multicaliber options for a 1911 is a no go. Just get a second pistol for whatever other caliber you want.

+100 here. The conversions are pretty much a waste of money, as you usually choose what you like best, and then have all that money tied up in the other calibers, sitting on a shelf, and youre still stuck with one gun.

Ive been there with rifles, shotguns, and handguns, and quit doing it back when Obama first got in. Actually awhile before that, but thats when I made a killing selling off all the stuff that was sitting around, and bought a few more guns.

 

[justin22885]

maybe.. but there are other reasons i want to go with the 1911, customizability being one.. tons of aftermarket parts to make it look and feel like just about anything.. i dont feel a NEED for a doublestack, not as much as i thought i did before realizing i generally dont care and the single stack mags i can fabricate myself in a punch if i need to... so 1911 for calibers such as 45acp, 38 super, and 10mm.. then for 9mm and 30 luger i'll hold off on and get a hi power or CZ-75 for that and for that im leading towards the hi power.. seems to be a lot of aftermarket for custom grips, trigger improvements, sights.. etc

 

[AK103K]

but there are other reasons i want to go with the 1911, customizability being one.. tons of aftermarket parts to make it look and feel like just about anything.

Sounds like something chasing its tail.

Hey, its your money, do what you want.

Ive come to realize that the money is better spent on quality, stock "factory" guns, with a good history/rep of out of the box function and reliability, and then spending what I would have wasted on "custom" add ons, on buying ammo and/or components, and quality, functional gear for each gun, and putting the practice in with them to be proficient with them. The returns seem to be much better.

By"each" gun I mean, "each" gun too. Ive got that "one is none, two is one" fetish, I have at least one duplicate of each. Thats the "being prepared" part.

 

[justin22885]

Sounds like something chasing its tail.

Hey, its your money, do what you want.

Ive come to realize that the money is better spent on quality, stock "factory" guns, with a good history/rep of out of the box function and reliability, and then spending what I would have wasted on "custom" add ons, on buying ammo and/or components, and quality, functional gear for each gun, and putting the practice in with them to be proficient with them. The returns seem to be much better.

By"each" gun I mean, "each" gun too. Ive got that "one is none, two is one" fetish, I have at least one duplicate of each. Thats the "being prepared" part.

so youve never purchased an aftermarket grip for a better feel?.. never polished up your trigger components for less grit and cleaner break?

 

[AK103K]

Grips/grip tape on some guns, sure. That, and night sights, are about as far as I go though.

Glocks solved the grips problem, they just get stippled. Everything else is factory though. No sense in compromising function with unnecessary junk. Feel the same about most of the others Ive owned/used as well, and that includes multiples of 1911's (real ones, the clones are problematic and best left alone), High Powers, SIG's, HK's, etc.

Im not "trigger phobic", so no need to mess with the triggers.

 

[justin22885]

Grips/grip tape on some guns, sure. That, and night sights, are about as far as I go though.

Glocks solved the grips problem, they just get stippled. Everything else is factory though. No sense in compromising function with unnecessary junk. Feel the same about most of the others Ive owned/used as well, and that includes multiples of 1911's (real ones, the clones are problematic and best left alone), High Powers, SIG's, HK's, etc.

Im not "trigger phobic", so no need to mess with the triggers.

glock grips suck, one of the many reasons i cant stand them, but when it comes to weapons that actually have adjustable grips.. why spend the money and take the time to set up the feel, the trigger, the ergonomics, and even the finish just the way you like it.. and then go do it to a bunch of more pistols?.. when you consider that, being able to use a single frame for all of that does make things cheaper and easier

and while it may be easier and cost just as much to get a 9mm pistol, i still want to get into 38 super and a 9mm pistol doesnt help with that

 

[AK103K]

glock grips suck

If you say so.

I felt the same way when I first saw them, and then I shot one, and spent some quality time with one, and then, "magically", they werent all that bad. No better or worse than most of the others. Same goes for their triggers. A wonderment, eh?

when you consider that, being able to use a single frame for all of that does make things cheaper and easier

You still only have one, now really expensive gun, that can only be used however its set up at the moment.

Ive already been there, and found it to be wasted money. Id rather have one "complete" gun in each caliber, if I feel the need for multiple calibers. From personal experience, those "do all" guns, rarely do it all well, and in some cases, not at all.

Then you still need ammo, mags, etc, for each caliber. I kept looking in the case, and seeing cases of ammo I wasnt shooting, with barrels and magazines I wasnt using, sitting on top of them.

why spend the money and take the time to set up the feel, the trigger, the ergonomics, and even the finish just the way you like it.. and then go do it to a bunch of more pistols?

I dont. I just buy box stock guns, and I use them. Really nothing to "set up", and they all work the same. I can also buy multiples of the same model, and usually for less than one of the "custom" guns, and in some cases, with what some of those custom guns cost, a number of multiples.

and while it may be easier and cost just as much to get a 9mm pistol, i still want to get into 38 super and a 9mm pistol doesnt help with that

Then buy a 38 Super. Whats so hard about that?

 

[barnbwt]

"Ive been there with rifles, shotguns, and handguns, and quit doing it back when Obama first got in. Actually awhile before that, but thats when I made a killing selling off all the stuff that was sitting around, and bought a few more guns."

Shhh, what're you, nuts? If you let the secret out, 2/3rds of the AR market will die!

Next thing you'll let out the sad truth about 'mil spec!'

TCB

 

[justin22885]

"Ive been there with rifles, shotguns, and handguns, and quit doing it back when Obama first got in. Actually awhile before that, but thats when I made a killing selling off all the stuff that was sitting around, and bought a few more guns."

Shhh, what're you, nuts? If you let the secret out, 2/3rds of the AR market will die!

Next thing you'll let out the sad truth about 'mil spec!'

TCB

you mean that milspec is only the very lowest quality standards that must be met by the military and is typically lower than the average?

 

[justin22885]

hmm.. curious as to what you guys think about caspain frames?.. from my understanding caspian frames are thinner, sized around a double stack 38 super as opposed to being sized for double stack 45acp like the para and STI frames.. is this true?.. if so, a caspian based 1911 in 38 super would be dimensionally perfect.. but wow.. i can buy the EAA witness for the price of that caspian frame alone.. talk about overpriced

 

[Teachu2]

maybe.. but there are other reasons i want to go with the 1911, customizability being one.. tons of aftermarket parts to make it look and feel like just about anything.. i dont feel a NEED for a doublestack, not as much as i thought i did before realizing i generally dont care and the single stack mags i can fabricate myself in a punch if i need to... so 1911 for calibers such as 45acp, 38 super, and 10mm.. then for 9mm and 30 luger i'll hold off on and get a hi power or CZ-75 for that and for that im leading towards the hi power.. seems to be a lot of aftermarket for custom grips, trigger improvements, sights.. etc

Make your own 1911 magazines in a punch? With a punch? In a pinch, with a punch? Under what scenario will 1911 magazines become so rare that you'd need to make one?

 

[justin22885]

Make your own 1911 magazines in a punch? With a punch? In a pinch, with a punch? Under what scenario will 1911 magazines become so rare that you'd need to make one?

gun bans, disasters, TEOTWAWKI, there are multiple scenarios involving limited access or restrictions and 1911 mags are among some of the easiest to fabricate

 

[Teachu2]

gun bans, disasters, TEOTWAWKI, there are multiple scenarios involving limited access or restrictions and 1911 mags are among some of the easiest to fabricate

Gun bans - magazines are not effective without a gun
Disasters - preparedness is key. If a disaster destroyed your magazines, but left your gun and ammo usable, just load one round.
TEOTWAWKI - "OK, everybody calm down while I make a magazine...."
Limited Access or Restrictions - If magazines for 1911s are gone, zip guns will be the order of the day. And you can make one of those in less time, and with greater reliability.
1911 mags are among some of the easiest to fabricate - It may be among the easiest, but it's certainly not easy. Go ahead, start the timer and whip one out - and make it work.

If you were selecting a 1911 based on the enormous supply of magazines available at reasonable cost so that you could afford to stockpile a couple dozen to stash in various secret locations, the vast assortment of parts currently available, and the ability to tear it down without specialized tools, I'd say you were using good reasoning. Considering one because you think you could make a magazine in a punch seems unrealistic. It would be like choosing a .21 Jet revolver as a survival gun because "nobody else will be buying that ammo".

 

[Zerodefect]

It's easier to stockpile mags than make them. 3 mags per pistol is plenty.

Sound like the 1911 is your pistol. Go for it. Colt, CZ, and Dan Wesson are good to go. As for the Glock grips, I used to think the same thing. But round and undercut the right rear of the trigger guard,put in a good metal trigger, and select the proper Gen4 backstrap and they're pretty sweet.

 

[justin22885]

im still not sure about the 1911 just yet, i have little interest in sticking with 45acp at this point.. i mean i MAY still keep it around, but i dont know if i want a gone designed specifically for it where all other calibers are generally just a workaround.. the EAA witness was basically designed around 38 super, and 38 supers the caliber im most interested in

the main reason i was interested in the 1911 is all the customizability options.. the grips available, hammers, triggers, and other upgrades.. but you know, now that i think about it it may be more fun to make my own upgrades for something less supported, design my own custom grips, etc.. maybe do something that not anyone with a credit card can do

its not just glocks.. if i wanted a glock id probably use one of the timberwolf frames which offers a much more comfortable grip and is still compatible with all glock parts.. im just not a big fan of polymers and plastics in general and the eaa witness full size is really only about 8 ounces heavier.. consider im using to carrying revolvers that weigh more than the witness the weight savings of a glock do nothing to convince me to go for one