BamAlmighty
Member
They introduce this awesome concept yet here we are almost 1 year later and NOTHING.
Is this the RFB all over again? All talk, no bite?
I want a KSG!
Is this the RFB all over again? All talk, no bite?
I want a KSG!
Was Keltec's KSG just vaporware?
- Thread starter BamAlmighty
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fatcat4620
Member
They already cant make enough Sub 2000, SU16, RFB ect. I dont know whats wrong with them but they have cool ideas and zero production capability.
KelTec has a history of promising to deliver a gun at one time and missing it by at least a year, they seem to have a horrible lack of regard for their customers. After going thru this with the pmr30, i refuse to buy another KelTec product new, id rather give my money to nearly any other company.
Quiet
Member
Kel-Tec is a small manufacturer.
They make firearms in batches.
It will take awhile after release (2-3 years) before they can make enough to reach every available market.
They make firearms in batches.
It will take awhile after release (2-3 years) before they can make enough to reach every available market.
N003k
Member
That's hardly fair antihero. They don't have the most production capabilities, and their weapons are fairly in demand in some cases. Not being able to produce enough to keep up with demand doesn't mean they have a disregard for customers. If they were INTENTIONALLY shorting production to artificially create the circumstances, that'd be one thing, but I've yet to hear anyone accuse Kel-tec of that.
I'm sure when feasible they'd love to expand their production capabilities, but, for now, we're all stuck waiting. I personally want, but have yet to see in person, an RFB myself. The KSG is pretty neat also, but, I'll wait.
I'm sure when feasible they'd love to expand their production capabilities, but, for now, we're all stuck waiting. I personally want, but have yet to see in person, an RFB myself. The KSG is pretty neat also, but, I'll wait.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Then I fail to see why the company hasn't found a way to finance an expansion of their operation. If people are waving money at you, it behooves you to take the effort to make it easy for them to hand it over.
ErikO
Member
I guess its hard to get credit these days when you're an American manufacturing company...they should have incorporated as a bank perhaps?
Considering I still cant find the RFB in gun shops I'm not holding my breath on the KSG. It took years for the RFB to be "released" after it was debuted at shot. Even at that it had a number of issues in the early units and still isn't readily available. So the fact that we are not even a year from the SHOT debuted does not have me surprised its not out. Furthermore if I remember correctly even at shot they were saying it wouldn't be out until next year. I don't expect kel tec to meet their projected dates, let alone beat them.
I was just over at their site today-they have an 8 minute video detailing design changes they've made based on feedback from LE etc at the SHOT Show.
Maybe that's also forced 'em to move their timetable back some?
Just got back from the gun shop and asked the owner if he knew anything-no info on shipping dates-MSRP at the site is expected to be in the $800 range. The shop owner said it should go for around $600 (he didn't say where he got that info).
Maybe that's also forced 'em to move their timetable back some?
Just got back from the gun shop and asked the owner if he knew anything-no info on shipping dates-MSRP at the site is expected to be in the $800 range. The shop owner said it should go for around $600 (he didn't say where he got that info).
CoRoMo
Member
I have no idea what the heck is going on down in Florida. They are making a joke of themselves. No shortage of pocket pistols though. They can sure crank those out by the truckload, and I carry one everyday. 
Who knows if they are even turning a profit at the price of their handguns and the way they ship out free parts and replacement guns at the drop of a hat, whenever anyone, anywhere contacts them with a technical question.
Who knows if they are even turning a profit at the price of their handguns and the way they ship out free parts and replacement guns at the drop of a hat, whenever anyone, anywhere contacts them with a technical question.N003k
Member
Justin, in their About section on their page they in fact DO say they're expanding the facility:
Look, I understand wanting it, but, it's not quite right to attribute not being able to keep up with the demand to bad customer service. If anyone has any evidence they're INTENTIONALLY keeping supply low, alright, then THAT'S wrong of them, and I'd definitely join you in railing against them. But if it comes down to just not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand, then as long as they ARE working to fix it (and according to them they ARE) then what are they doing wrong?
[url=http://www.keltecweapons.com/about/]Kel-Tec About Page[/url] said:
Look, I understand wanting it, but, it's not quite right to attribute not being able to keep up with the demand to bad customer service. If anyone has any evidence they're INTENTIONALLY keeping supply low, alright, then THAT'S wrong of them, and I'd definitely join you in railing against them. But if it comes down to just not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand, then as long as they ARE working to fix it (and according to them they ARE) then what are they doing wrong?
This is basically what i was going to say.
As for intentionally keeping demand high by keeping production low, i wouldnt even think of it if it wasnt for the fact that pretty much every single product they have produced has had that exact problem. P3AT? It took like 2 years for it to actually be available to buy. PF9? I didnt even see one for at least 6 months after it had been "released". RFB? Still isnt on the shelves. PMR30? I had to wait 9 freakin months for my order to be filled after KelTec said they had been released.
You can always say that they are incompetent when it comes to manufacturing but keeping your production levels super low is a cheap and easy way to create a clientele that is desperate to get that super rare gun and it makes everyone who cant get it want it that much more.
Dont get me wrong i love my P3AT and PMR30. I also think that the KSG is a very revolutionary design, but ill wait to get it used or get the inevitable Ruger version. Id rather not give money to a company that doesnt seem to value my business whatsoever.
Apple a Day
Member
You want 'em to do it fast or do you want 'em to do it right?
I imagine if they were going to crank out yet another 1911 or AR then it wouldn't take too long to start quirting them out but since they're making some really interesting things that no one has made before it takes a bit longer.
Patience is a virtue.
I imagine if they were going to crank out yet another 1911 or AR then it wouldn't take too long to start quirting them out but since they're making some really interesting things that no one has made before it takes a bit longer.
Patience is a virtue.
Pretty much every early makes of each model has had to be recalled. The P3AT had extractor issues as did the PF9 if i remember correctly. The PMR30 had some kabooms or something and had to be recalled.
Dont get me wrong, they make innovative products, they just need to make many, many more. Or even just become a R&D company for one of the bigger companies and hand off the actual production to a company that can make enough to meet demand.
Well we have a pick up truck that has been the subject of something like 30+ recalls over the last 14+ years. Several involved critical parts that had become subject to recall due to several fatalities... So a recall over an extractor is not all that scary to me.
Often times variables are only found when several thousand of any given item are made. Its just the nature of manufacturing.
Southern Rebel
Member
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- 154
While I am in agreement with wanting Keltec to ramp up and meet demand on their innovative guns, I also understand that they have their own business plan and it seems to be working. I have seen the results of companies that try to grow too quickly and get crushed by cash flow, competition, bad economy, increased fixed costs on each product due to expansion costs that have to be recouped over a long period of time.
Each of us certainly have the right to decide how WE would run the company - that doesn't necessarily mean that we are correct. If the ownership is making the profit that it wants to make and is comfortable with the current growth plans, that sounds to me like good old capitalism at it's finest.
(Note: I am kinda ok with not being tempted to buy too early - it allows for a longer period of time for the product to be consumer-tested without my money involved.)
Each of us certainly have the right to decide how WE would run the company - that doesn't necessarily mean that we are correct. If the ownership is making the profit that it wants to make and is comfortable with the current growth plans, that sounds to me like good old capitalism at it's finest.
(Note: I am kinda ok with not being tempted to buy too early - it allows for a longer period of time for the product to be consumer-tested without my money involved.)
CoRoMo
Member
I don't see it that way. Not at this point anyway. Maybe someday, when you can find the KSG and RFB at every Sportsman's Warehouse, Big 5, and Gander Mtn, then yeah, I'll agree.
For now though, I'd say to Keltec:
Zundfolge
Member
Slower production, long term employees, and high demand for the foreseeable future is not a bad thing.
Expanding production, a few great years of high sales, only to go bankrupt or have to lay off a bunch of employees hired during the expansion is a less desirable business plan in my opinion.
Today business schools tend to teach expand expand expand. Invest profit in getting bigger and bigger.
This encourages the big booms and busts so common in the market today. The business grows until it reaches a bloated size, and then when it has much greater operational costs and business slows it has to file bankruptcy or lay off a lot of its work force.
A permanent small Kel-Tec might be better than one around for only a few more years that mass produced everything until things got tough and went belly up.
Kel-Tec is also not a publicly traded company, another smart move in my opinion. The owner still owns their own business, some board of directors or stock holders won't be telling them how and what to do with their business and profits.
A small company that can do what it wants, when it wants, and has long term employees that work together for years with very high job security for the foreseeable future.
Doesn't that sound like the kind of place you would want to work or own?
Or would you rather make your living as a number in a large impersonal corporation/conglomerate subject to the whims of Wall Street?
Expanding production, a few great years of high sales, only to go bankrupt or have to lay off a bunch of employees hired during the expansion is a less desirable business plan in my opinion.
Today business schools tend to teach expand expand expand. Invest profit in getting bigger and bigger.
This encourages the big booms and busts so common in the market today. The business grows until it reaches a bloated size, and then when it has much greater operational costs and business slows it has to file bankruptcy or lay off a lot of its work force.
A permanent small Kel-Tec might be better than one around for only a few more years that mass produced everything until things got tough and went belly up.
Kel-Tec is also not a publicly traded company, another smart move in my opinion. The owner still owns their own business, some board of directors or stock holders won't be telling them how and what to do with their business and profits.
A small company that can do what it wants, when it wants, and has long term employees that work together for years with very high job security for the foreseeable future.
Doesn't that sound like the kind of place you would want to work or own?
Or would you rather make your living as a number in a large impersonal corporation/conglomerate subject to the whims of Wall Street?
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No!
I work at a startup. We're privately funded, we have lots of control over what we do. It's great. But the whole point is to expand it into a gigantic business so we can make a crapton of money off of it. That's the point of businesses.
Kel-Tec is probably making the right decisions. I'd rather see the KSG come out a year late than see the issues the PMR-30 had.
There's a downside to firearms companies being small. Just like car companies, you want to buy a product from a company you know will be around down the road. Will Kel-Tec be around in 10 years? Probably. Remington and Mossberg? Definitely.
lobo9er
Member
Maybe they are comfortable where they are at. They arent owned by a MEGA Bucks group like cerberus mgt. company like S&W, Remington, bushmaster,H&R,marlin etc. They make their prodects as fast as they can with the company growing at a rate that maybe easier for them to manage, with out getting out of control. They are hardly BoBerg.
RhinoDefense
Member
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- Jul 2, 2010
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- 883
Kel Tec is a CNC company and firearms are a small portion of what they manufacture. If they are going to be involved in a market, they need to come close to meeting demand.
To those saying they shouldn't have announced anything. I'll point out that at SHOT they said it wouldn't be out before next year. So I'm not sure why anyone should expect it to be out. Furthermore, lots of companies so prototypes (I really want the magpul flashlight folding SBR). What is annoying is when they actually give a firm date and then miss it give another date miss it again, and repeat. That was what happened with the RFB.
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