Watch out for the bad guy's backup

Status
Not open for further replies.
Y

Yoda

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
615
Location
Florida, bouncing between Hurlburt Fld and MacDill
Check out the STORE video. Wait until after you see EVERYONE leave the store on the outside camera. Here's the link:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/2...-in-hopes-of-catching-purse-snatching-suspect

Here's the point:

Watch carefully. The THIRD dude, the one dressed "normally," does not seem surprised by the assault, does not offer to help the victim, and runs off himself as soon as he clears the door. He probably is part of the perps' overwatch. IF YOU ELECT TO INTERVENE, you MUST be aware of the potential for an accomplice to be behind you. This is how a genuine hero in a Reno Walmart got dropped a few weeks ago. In any case, I wish it weren't so, but the reality is that there are lost souls everywhere. Watch for them and be ready, even in a "nice" store.

- - - Yoda
 
I hope they find the dirtbags! Kind of shows how stupid some crooks are. Probably no one would have ever realized they were all three together if they hadn't run off together.

The family being interviewed though, they're pretty clueless. I don't think the robbers give a tinker's damn about the victim. It likely doesn't bother them one way or another if someone gets hurt or dies. People make the mistake of projecting their value system into the perps. It's natural but wrong. You might think seeing the victim on TV would make them feel bad. After all you know it would make you feel bad! But when's the last time you threw a 74 year old woman to the ground to take her purse?
 
"seeded" back-up, tail gunners, by-standers.....

I agree that being aware of "seeded back-ups" or tail-gunners is smart.
The recent Walmart shooting in NV where the brave CCW holder was shot in the back by a armed woman associated with a violent felon is another example. :uhoh:

It's also worth noting that by-standers or shoppers/patrons not involved in the events can cause problems too.
Another Orlando Florida incident which just occurred early Tue morning at a crowded downtown nightclub had a woman shot & killed. :eek:
A man wanting to enter a bar got upset & reportedly pulled a gun out. He was fired on by a few uniformed police officers in the area. A woman, not involved in the dispute, was hit & killed. Tragic. :(

Details are not clear yet if the woman was killed by the Orlando police or the armed subject. The bar patron was seriously wounded & in a Orlando medical center.
 
This is often debated, but I see little upside to intervening on anyone's behalf while a part of an unfolding, potentially deadly situation.

Sure, you do whatever you have to do get yourself or your children to a safer situation, but anything past that, I would be risking far more than it would be worth.

Even with great intel, things go awry quick.
 
Wisco said:
This is often debated, but I see little upside to intervening on anyone's behalf while a part of an unfolding, potentially deadly situation.

Sure, you do whatever you have to do get yourself or your children to a safer situation, but anything past that, I would be risking far more than it would be worth.

Even with great intel, things go awry quick.
Click to expand...
This.
 
360 degree battlefield.....

In the post 9/11/2001 era, many US military troops were trained to watch out for threats from every direction. :uhoh:

In a critical incident, keep scanning & looking all around you. Don't let "tunnel vision" or "vapor lock" over-load you. And note; it will happen. ;)
You can train, use lasers, airsoft, paintballs or 3D DV simulators but you'll still have physiological response to a critical incident.
 
Rudyard Kipling said it best:

"When the field before you is clear
And you know you are sure to win
Look to your flanks and rear
That's where surprises begin."

NEVER assume the threat is neutralized until the police arrive. Remain vigilant and armed.
 
I just have a strong aversion to getting involved as a third party. There's far too much I wouldn't know, and in employing deadly force, that's a recipe for disaster in more ways than one.
 
3 yoots....

If I saw 3 yoots(or youths, if you ever saw My Cousin; Vinnie(1992 www.imdb.com ) knock down & rob a 72 year old woman, I think Id have a pretty clear idea of what was going on. :uhoh:

Really, cautious is okay as private citizen but if you are too risk adverse or scared then you won't help anyone. :uhoh:

In 2011, I worked with a hotel security officer who had a few "run-ins" with the local thugs & street gang members. It got so bad, the guard quit & decided the job was not worth being in a hospital or beaten to death.
He didn't have a security, LE or military background so I can't blame him.
Those types of jobs aren't for everyone.
 
I'd have a good idea what was happening, and only possible help to her would be giving medical assistance. Anything else to those unarmed gentle youths would incite a riot.:rolleyes:

Really, that happened so fast no one could help except giving aid to her after the fact. Some of us aren't LEO and have no other options when they are running, right?
 
True....

That's true.....
As a private citizen, you can't chase people down the street. You can evoke a "citizen's arrest" & detain someone under certain conditions but if a subject(s) are unarmed then that becomes dicey. :uhoh:
If I sat on a jury or grand jury & had a criminal court case where a citizen acting in good faith used force or displayed a weapon in relation to preventing a felon's flight, I would not put charges on them.

UPDATE;
The Orlando Florida bar shooting reportedly had 2 police officers shooting a female by-stander(she died at a medical center :( ) and wounding a Orlando police LT. :eek:
This is another good example of being careful in crowded areas. The subject(who wanted to get into the nightclub) did not fire his handgun.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement is now looking into the police shooting.
Under the conditions, I doubt either police officer will be charged but I bet they will be shaking door-knobs at the local airport for a long time. ;)
 
Hard to tell from the video. Can't say I blame someone for not wanting to get involved in anything these days.

It looks mildly suspicious to me, but who knows if the 3rd guy was part of the crime or not.
 
Really, that happened so fast no one could help except giving aid to her after the fact. Some of us aren't LEO and have no other options when they are running, right?
Click to expand...

I'm glad someone finally mentioned the speed in which the attack took place. I don't think most of us have a real sense of how fast and violent an assault really is and how useless a weapon is at first contact unless by some chance it is already in hand and then it is likely first used to strike or deflect.
In other threads there have been similar situations in which dogs have attacked or people have been attacked while in their cars or while otherwise minding their own business and often there is more than just one and I suspect that number is higher than reported due to the 2nd or 3rd man melting into the crowd.
There was a very good FOF series of videos on youtube that a couple guys had put together that clearly showed how fast normal situations can turn south and some I believe did have tailgunner scenarios.
I have come to a few conclusions over the years in which I have armed myself for personal defense.
One is I will probably need to survive and recover from a first point of contact with an attacker.
Second is that I have chosen to believe that that attacker will not be alone.
Third is that I will not be choosing the time or place and despite what is reported as a reduction in violent crime I believe criminals are increasingly bolder and more violent and possibly desperate.
There is a reason that police and military are as successful as they are and while training takes its place in any actions they also have the superiority of numbers as well as a ORF plan that makes attacking them a costly endeavor.
If the poor lady in the video would have had her husband and sons or other men nearby I doubt she would have been marked as a target, same goes for most criminal attacks.
 
Originally Posted by Wisco View Post
This is often debated, but I see little upside to intervening on anyone's behalf while a part of an unfolding, potentially deadly situation.

Sure, you do whatever you have to do get yourself or your children to a safer situation, but anything past that, I would be risking far more than it would be worth.

Even with great intel, things go awry quick.
Click to expand...
This.
Click to expand...

Wait, wait, wait a minute. What are you saying? Will you let a man or women lay there and get beaten to death by a couple thugs, when you know they're an innocent victim, etc?

Or is your quote more specific to the video linked, that admittedly I did not watch. I hope you two are not around if one of my daughters is in trouble some day.

<hands clasped> "Lord, send someone who WILL intervene".
 
Wait, wait, wait a minute. What are you saying? Will you let a man or women lay there and get beaten to death by a couple thugs, when you know they're an innocent victim, etc?
Click to expand...

I am saying exactly what you surmised. I will let a couple thugs do whatever it is they are doing while I ensure my own safety, which would be very compromised by entering the fray to defend another person. Once I am safe from injury to my life and limb, I will be a great witness as I record with my smartphone.

This mindset perhaps does not apply to the extreme elderly or children in danger. In an instance where two men are beating to death someone of those two groups, I may sacrifice some of my own safety to help ensure theirs.

I fear the legal repercussions in my city would be very harsh should I come to the defense of another and use force that results in a death.
 
Posted by Potatohead: [In response to "I see little upside to intervening on anyone's behalf while a part of an unfolding, potentially deadly situation."]Wait, wait, wait a minute. What are you saying? Will you let a man or women lay there and get beaten to death by a couple thugs, when you know they're an innocent victim, etc?
Click to expand...
How is what you are describing an "unfolding, potentially deadly situation"?

Or is your quote more specific to the video linked, that admittedly I did not watch. I hope you two are not around if one of my daughters is in trouble some day.
Click to expand...
You might watch it before jumping in.

The question was about the apparent participation of three perps in a crime that unfolded so quickly that it is highly doubtful that any citizen could have been of much help..
 
To posts 17 & 18

Fair enough and point taken.

"Think twice, post once,

think twice, post once"

I need to remind myself again sometimes.

:)
 
I am not so sure the third person had anything to do with the robbery. He may have run out to give chase or at least observe which way the perps went. He appeared to be surprised by the situation. I'm not sure that anyone except the purse snatcher knew what was going to happen.
 
New details about the OPD nightclub event.....

The Orlando Florida media today put out a few more details.
One OPD officer(on the job about 2.5 years & assigned to bike patrol) reportedly fired his SIG P226R 9x19mm nine times. :uhoh:
One of those rounds(known to be Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ JHP but not confirmed) struck & killed a 22 year old female bar patron.

The subject's gun a Ruger .40S&W was unloaded but recovered by crime scene techs & investigators.

Rusty
 
The concept of the "sleeper" is an old one. It was ingrained upon me many years ago that where you find one,you may find another.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

F
  • Locked
STRATFOR Security Weekly: Watching For Watchers
Replies
2
Views
216
sidheshooter
S
K
  • Locked
Bad Tactics, Bad Journalism
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
127
Views
4K
jmorris
jmorris
Z
  • Locked
Good guys One, Mugger ZERO!
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
phaed
P
W
  • Locked
Jump onto hood, shoot into car?
Replies
7
Views
1K
Coronach
C
D
  • Locked
OC Stops BG in Robbery
2 3
Replies
52
Views
3K
Mp7
Mp7
Back
Top