We killed the plate today

[wally]

45_auto, I liked your post, but I am sorry you had to "learn the hard way". I'm really glad you were lucky that no serious or permanent damage was done!
Thanks for sharing!

People can pontificate until the cows come home and argue with poor analogies about what can or can't happen, but you and I and others posting here have the real-world experience to know what can happen if you decide to "roll the dice" and shoot cratered plates.

I started shooting steel in the late 80s early 90s it wasn't a very common activity then, people mostly hung up thick scrap and everyone had fun until ....

Using only AR500 or better steel and quickly retiring any cratered plates has to my knowledge pretty much eliminated issues as long as minimum distance rules are followed typically 10 yards for pistols, 100 yards for rifles with the "most common" recreational calibers) and the "everyone wears eye protection all the time" is enforced.

 

[tark]

People can pontificate until the cows come home and argue with poor analogies about what can or can't happen, but you and I and others posting here have the real-world experience to know what can happen if you decide to "roll the dice" and shoot cratered plates.

This is an interesting attitude. It makes an assumption that some posters consider themselves more knowledgeable than others because they have "real world experience."

Not something I do, because I have no way of knowing just how much "real world experience" the other guy has. I just assume he has as much ,or more, than myself. I post based on my real world experience.

It seems obvious to me that I am the "pontificator" and maker of poor analogies you are referring to. This is not the venue to discuss that.

So shoot me a PM and I'll tell you about my "real world experience"

 

[fpgt72]

Every one on the internet is an expert....and they will sure tell you that.

Bottom line is there is risk shooting at steel.

 

[RecoilRob]

This is an interesting attitude. It makes an assumption that some posters consider themselves more knowledgeable than others because they have "real world experience."

Not something I do, because I have no way of knowing just how much "real world experience" the other guy has. I just assume he has as much ,or more, than myself. I post based on my real world experience.

It seems obvious to me that I am the "pontificator" and maker of poor analogies you are referring to. This is not the venue to discuss that.

So shoot me a PM and I'll tell you about my "real world experience"

I, for one, would not question Member Tark as he's proven to be very knowledgeable and kind enough to share this experience over the years. And...regarding the 'bet' that was offered: it would be a LOT easier to just send the ammo in question to the steel in question and let Tark try it out. Would only cost a few dollars to ship...no need to transport humans across country to see if penetration would happen. The rifle being used is the same..or close enough that it wouldn't matter and I'm quite sure that the question could be settled quickly and to the satisfaction of all concerned.

 

[1KPerDay]

Tark, the problem is it doesn't stop when it hits the plate. It sometimes, under the right conditions and shot in just the right place, does a very rapid U-turn in one of the craters, as 45_Auto can testify.

 

[fpgt72]

In before a mod shuts this down.

Some people will just not say....hay I done lernted somtin today....wow....Some is it just impossible to say....guess I was not correct in this issue.

 

[jmorris]

the problem is it doesn't stop when it hits the plate.

That pretty much sums it up. If everything was over at impact, it would be fine to shoot a steel plate just inches from the muzzle.

 

[9MMare]

This is an interesting attitude. It makes an assumption that some posters consider themselves more knowledgeable than others because they have "real world experience."

I see people claim expertise based on that all the time. Like a gun salesmen: "I can tell what handgun fits a person within 5 seconds of them holding it." LOL, silly things like that.

 

[wally]

So shoot me a PM and I'll tell you about my "real world experience"

I totally fail to see your point. Are you claiming its OK to shoot cratered steel plates?

Its your life and a lawsuit on you if a bystander gets injured because you insisted on shooting at cratered steel plates -- although it would also reflect badly on gun owners in general.

I'll question anybody who claims its OK to do things that are clearly unsafe and wants to argue that what clearly has happened and has injured people is somehow "impossible" or "unlikely".

I don't care one whit about the side argument about which round will or will not penetrate which plate. If it penetrates its only a hazard to things behind the plate. If the bullet "splatters" (the desired outcome when shooting steel) its only a hazard to things "close" to the plate and at a shallow angle to its plane. Its the partial penetrations, or craters that cause the problems.

So the knowledge that comes with lack of experience is somehow superior? Empirical observations trump theory every time unless you are a Liberal or religious zealot.

 

[tark]

Tark, the problem is it doesn't stop when it hits the plate. It sometimes, under the right conditions and shot in just the right place, does a very rapid U-turn in one of the craters, as 45_Auto can testify.

This is a perfect description of how a cratered plate can spit a bullet back at you.

Its your life and a lawsuit on you if a bystander gets injured because you insisted on shooting at cratered steel plates -- although it would also reflect badly on gun owners in general.
I'll question anybody who claims its OK to do things that are clearly unsafe and wants to argue that what clearly has happened and has injured people is somehow "impossible" or "unlikely".

Now, one more time, for the last time, I will try to explain my assertions. Read this slowly and let it sink in. I'm sick and tired of people accusing me of saying things I never said.

I maintained that a bullet hitting a steel plate that already has a HOLE in it (the bullet actually hits the hole) cannot reverse itself magically and fly back at the shooter. I maintained that it is not possible for for a bullet hitting a flat, un-cratered steel plate at a perfect 90 degree angle, to ricochet 180 degrees and fly back to the the shooter. I did not EVER, in any of my posts , say that was safe to shoot at cratered steel plates.

So the knowledge that comes with lack of experience is somehow superior? Empirical observations trump theory every time unless you are a Liberal or religious zealot.

Here, again, you are assuming I have a lack of experience. Excuse me, you know nothing about me or what experiences I might have. You might be surprised. PM me and I'll tell you about some.

 

[tark]

I don't know how that happened the last part of my response turned white. I give up. I'm outta here

 

[Robert]

Sigh, why, why must everything become an argument? Shooting tore up steel can be dangerous. Shooting steel with a rifle at unsafe ranges can be dangerous. Don't want to believe that? Well, it's your life do as you see fit.