JAMES77257
Member
I just watched the Ruby Ridge documentry again. Is it just me, or are the Weavers the victims. None of them were convicted of anything involving the assault. I really feel bad for these people. Am I alone?
Were the Weavers victims?
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JAMES77257
Member
Yes = Victim.
No = asked for it.
Sorry, my first poll.
No = asked for it.
Sorry, my first poll.
Heavy Metal Hero
Member
I side with most of what HRT says involving this case.
Stretchman
member
I have read that the guys who were deployed at the site said that there were some really bad communications problems between the guys who were up there and the guys in Washington. That was one of the problems that turned it into a tragedy. But to be absolutely honest, the guy was wanted on an outstanding warrant, and I think he was only looking at 90 days. If he had simply done his time it would have been over, and none of the situation would have happened. Moral of the story? Don't play escalato with the US Gov, you will lose.
Stretch
Quit cigs 1M 5D 18h 41m ago. So far saved $220.67, 1,471 cigs not smoked and counting ...
Stretch
Quit cigs 1M 5D 18h 41m ago. So far saved $220.67, 1,471 cigs not smoked and counting ...
...looking at 90 days...so his family is sniped by a government assassin who is subsequently granted immunity from prosecution when the state in which the shooting occurred goes after him legally...and who also happens to show up at Waco....
He wasn't granted immunity, as I recall, the Federal Attorney chose to dismiss the charges. There is a difference.
His wife was shot because he met the state's force with force of his own. Somehow I don't see people being turned into martyrs (by Weaver devotees) when they're American Indians (Leonard Peltier) or black (Mumia Abu Jamal).
His wife was shot because he met the state's force with force of his own. Somehow I don't see people being turned into martyrs (by Weaver devotees) when they're American Indians (Leonard Peltier) or black (Mumia Abu Jamal).
TCB in TN
Member
looking at 90 days...so his family is sniped by a government assassin who is subsequently granted immunity from prosecution when the state in which the shooting occurred goes after him legally...and who also happens to show up at Waco....
Maybe I missed something, but wasn't there an issue with his court date being moved up, and a lack of notification causing him to miss the hearing? May be wrong, been a while since I read through things, but that sticks out in my mind. That along with a little thing about the Gov shooting the dogs, as well as the 14 year old boy in the back after he fired in response, and mom in the head while unarmed and holding a baby and ........ sure sounds like a responsible reaction to the crime in question.
Maybe I missed something, but wasn't there an issue with his court date being moved up, and a lack of notification causing him to miss the hearing? May be wrong, been a while since I read through things, but that sticks out in my mind. That along with a little thing about the Gov shooting the dogs, as well as the 14 year old boy in the back after he fired in response, and mom in the head while unarmed and holding a baby and ........ sure sounds like a responsible reaction to the crime in question.
Glockfan.45
member
Yes IMO they were. The Weavers never bothered anybody, they just wanted to be left alone. The ATF went to great lengths to entrap him for their own agenda. What happened afterwards was inexcusable, and just plain wrong. How anybody can work for the ATF and look at themselves in the mirror is beyond me. I have ZERO RESPECT for the ATF and their agents, they are scum not worth the carbon they are made of.
JAMES77257
Member
I agree that he should have handled this differently, but that is no reason for the HRT to shoot a woman holding her baby.
I agree, but lets stop name calling so this discussion dosen't get closed.
I agree, but lets stop name calling so this discussion dosen't get closed.
SouthpawShootr
Member
Well, he was definitely not saint. Neither did his crime(s) in any way warrant the heavy-handed government response. So, no, definitely he didn't ask for it. He certainly was a victim to some degree. I feel like they would have eventually talked him down. I doubt the on-site feds were motivated to negotiate.
Heavy Metal Hero
Member
Glockfan those people do make things safer, believe it or not.
JAMES77257
Member
I disagree.
tbtrout
Member
Definately victims.
hrgrisso
Member
Randy Weaver
I have family up by Ruby Ridge so while this was happening we would get updates. After the tragedy, of course Randy took his remaining family and have moved several times around the western portion of the country. He moved in next door to some close friends of mine in Cordes (on the way to Prescott). I had the priviledge of getting to know him a little bit before he was pressured out of the area. A lot of people don't know the continued harrasment he has recieved to this day from individuals that call him a rascist and a bigot. A few things many don't know about what happened or have forgotten.
The outstanding warrant was minor, but remember, the LE were the ones to start shooting without justification, hence the Weavers being holed up in their house. Remember that EVERY LEA involved was officially cited at fault at the final trial where the federal government ended up paying him millions.
While the original issue that caused the whole thing was a shotgun bought under false pretenses.
WEAVERS: Victims
Government: Perps (what else is new)
JANET RENO =
I have family up by Ruby Ridge so while this was happening we would get updates. After the tragedy, of course Randy took his remaining family and have moved several times around the western portion of the country. He moved in next door to some close friends of mine in Cordes (on the way to Prescott). I had the priviledge of getting to know him a little bit before he was pressured out of the area. A lot of people don't know the continued harrasment he has recieved to this day from individuals that call him a rascist and a bigot. A few things many don't know about what happened or have forgotten.
The outstanding warrant was minor, but remember, the LE were the ones to start shooting without justification, hence the Weavers being holed up in their house. Remember that EVERY LEA involved was officially cited at fault at the final trial where the federal government ended up paying him millions.
While the original issue that caused the whole thing was a shotgun bought under false pretenses.
WEAVERS: Victims
Government: Perps (what else is new)
JANET RENO =
allmons
Member
An ATF stooge conned him into sawing off a shotgun
for a large sum of money - they wanted to "turn him" so they could go after some weird white supremicists. In other words, the Government convinced him to commit a crime so they could get at someone else.
Every LEO I have discussed this case with think this was a bad operation from the beginning. There is no excuse for Mr Weaver not to answer the charges, but killing people because they don't believe like you do is against every thing this country was built on.
It was all policy by a rogue agency that SHOULD NOT EXIST.
for a large sum of money - they wanted to "turn him" so they could go after some weird white supremicists. In other words, the Government convinced him to commit a crime so they could get at someone else.
Every LEO I have discussed this case with think this was a bad operation from the beginning. There is no excuse for Mr Weaver not to answer the charges, but killing people because they don't believe like you do is against every thing this country was built on.
It was all policy by a rogue agency that SHOULD NOT EXIST.
Heavy Metal Hero
Member
Well you can say all you want, but you are basing your argument on Waco and Ruby Ridge. You can't blame the ATF agents for that.
I find it disgusting to show utter disrespect for men and women who put their lives on the line everyday. There is a difference between disagreement and hate.
I find it disgusting to show utter disrespect for men and women who put their lives on the line everyday. There is a difference between disagreement and hate.
cassandrasdaddy
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victims
horiuchi took the fifth and only thing weaver was convicted of was failure to appear in court. shooting the dog then his kid in the back got it started
horiuchi took the fifth and only thing weaver was convicted of was failure to appear in court. shooting the dog then his kid in the back got it started
pacodelahoya
Member
Didn,t he show up for court the first time but noshow by the ATF?
After it was all over is it true that the ATF couldn't find the shotgun that was the cause of the whole incident??
That's what I remember reading but I don't know if that is the truth.
After it was all over is it true that the ATF couldn't find the shotgun that was the cause of the whole incident??
That's what I remember reading but I don't know if that is the truth.
offthepaper
Member
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Randy Weaver was no angel, neither are any of us. Nobody can justify what was done to his family. As far as the Gov't involvment goes, yes I do beleive he was "set up"by having his court date moved up without him ever being notified of the change of date.
Put their lives on the line?! Some may and do. That does not and cannot excuse the murder of American citizens by criminals acting under the color of law. "Basing the argument on Waco and Ruby Ridge"? That's what this thread is about- Ruby Ridge. It's tied to Waco because the same actors are involved.
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