Carl N. Brown
Member
From the accounts I have read, WD Bell had a surgeon's knowledge of elephant anatomy and could place a bullet exactly where it would have the most effect. What worked for him would not work for me.
What Constitutes an Elephant Gun?
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Kano383
Member
"Elephant guns" were guns made specifically for elephant hunting in the days of blackpowder, such as the 4 and 8 bores, and of such weight, recoil, and cost that no-one in his right mind would use them on anything else than an elephant.
Frederick Selous used a 4 bore to great effect on his quarry, and to dismal effect on himself. Here is what he had to say about it in later years: “…the 4-bore guns kicked most frightfully and, in my case, the punishment received has affected my nerves to such an extent as to have materially influenced my shooting ever since, and I am heartily sorry I ever had anything to do with them.”
Nowadays, the bullet construction and shot placement are far more important than the caliber itself. W. D. M. Bell settled on the .275 Rigby / 7x57 Mauser due to its long, solid bullet that would penetrate straight and deep, allowing him to execute brain shots under any decent angle. The German ammunition was utterly reliable too, unlike the British .303 of his days. He owned a .450/400 and did some tests, rigging his double so that the two barrels would go off at the same time. His conclusion: 800 grains in the wrong place do not kill, while 170 grains in the right place do kill. Hence, he saw no need for encumbering himself with a heavy and expensive gun, when he could use a light and handy rifle instead.
Few countries in Africa have regulations concerning the minimum caliber (spoiler, "Africa" is a continent, not a country...), among them Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, and other Southern countries, but since these are the most common destinations for American hunters, Internet lore has it that "in Africa you can only use this and that". In many places, the caliber choice is left to the PH and to common sense.
Today, "Elephant guns" are usually stupidly expensive pieces commissioned by rich aficionados, in large Nitro calibers. PHs tend to use more versatile calibers, such as the various .450 and .400, that they can lug around on any dangerous game hunt and shoot once in a while without breaking the bank. Serious elephant professionals are few and far in between, these have their own preferences, but that's really anecdotal considering how few of them are operating. People who have culled hundreds of elephants for a living are perfectly content with a .458 WM, and SA National Parks have used .308 with FMJ for elephant culling for a long time. Not so romantic, but apparently it does the job...
Frederick Selous used a 4 bore to great effect on his quarry, and to dismal effect on himself. Here is what he had to say about it in later years: “…the 4-bore guns kicked most frightfully and, in my case, the punishment received has affected my nerves to such an extent as to have materially influenced my shooting ever since, and I am heartily sorry I ever had anything to do with them.”
Nowadays, the bullet construction and shot placement are far more important than the caliber itself. W. D. M. Bell settled on the .275 Rigby / 7x57 Mauser due to its long, solid bullet that would penetrate straight and deep, allowing him to execute brain shots under any decent angle. The German ammunition was utterly reliable too, unlike the British .303 of his days. He owned a .450/400 and did some tests, rigging his double so that the two barrels would go off at the same time. His conclusion: 800 grains in the wrong place do not kill, while 170 grains in the right place do kill. Hence, he saw no need for encumbering himself with a heavy and expensive gun, when he could use a light and handy rifle instead.
Few countries in Africa have regulations concerning the minimum caliber (spoiler, "Africa" is a continent, not a country...), among them Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, and other Southern countries, but since these are the most common destinations for American hunters, Internet lore has it that "in Africa you can only use this and that". In many places, the caliber choice is left to the PH and to common sense.
Today, "Elephant guns" are usually stupidly expensive pieces commissioned by rich aficionados, in large Nitro calibers. PHs tend to use more versatile calibers, such as the various .450 and .400, that they can lug around on any dangerous game hunt and shoot once in a while without breaking the bank. Serious elephant professionals are few and far in between, these have their own preferences, but that's really anecdotal considering how few of them are operating. People who have culled hundreds of elephants for a living are perfectly content with a .458 WM, and SA National Parks have used .308 with FMJ for elephant culling for a long time. Not so romantic, but apparently it does the job...
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DeepSouth
Random Guy
For me to really think a little deeper on it, I have to kind of compare the question to something more familiar.
Take the question “What constitutes a deer (whitetail) gun?
Well, I know a LOT of people that have killed a lot of deer with a 22lr, illegally but dead none the less.
What I would consider a reasonable deer gun would probably start at the .243, certainly no smaller.
I guess with that thought in mind, and with my extremely limited knowledge on elephant hunting. I think I’d say to be legitimate elephant gun you have to have at least magnum calibers that start with 4’s.
Take the question “What constitutes a deer (whitetail) gun?
Well, I know a LOT of people that have killed a lot of deer with a 22lr, illegally but dead none the less.
What I would consider a reasonable deer gun would probably start at the .243, certainly no smaller.
I guess with that thought in mind, and with my extremely limited knowledge on elephant hunting. I think I’d say to be legitimate elephant gun you have to have at least magnum calibers that start with 4’s.
Archie
Member
One of my favorite cartoons of all time. Wouldn't be seen today in any 'with it' magazine for it's truth vis a vis the 2nd Amendment.
"Elephant rifle" is one of those nebulous terms like "army gun" or 'police gun', covering a lot of information, colored heavily by misconception. (Only the police can have such a thing.)
What is called an 'elephant gun' by the under-informed is described by riflemen who know as a 'large, dangerous game rifle' meaning that such a rifle is suited to dispatching or at least 'turning' a large, dangerous animal that is determined to put a stop to one's nonsense.
A point here in parenthesis. For those who have not, I suggest The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter by W. D. M. Bell (Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell) an autobiographical work of his life and career. He did kill over on thousand elephants, most with a ".275 Rigby" (known in the rest of the world as a 7x57mm Mauser). His favorite rifle was a 6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schonauer (it was lighter, but there was a dearth of ammunition during the First World War). He also used a .303 British rifle, employing the earlier 215 bullet. All FMJ.
Another good picture of the idea is Death in the Long Grass by Peter Hathaway Capstick.
Elmer Keith's Rifles for Large Game is more generic, but deals with much the same issues.
Terry Wieland's Dangerous Game Rifles was written by a living man who has hunted African game and lands.
Over.
Currently, most regions and authorities in the Continent of Africa place a lower limit of .375 H&H or 9.3x74mmR (.366" or so). I am not aware of velocity or energy levels, but I would expect them. Those standards likely vary a bit, but are likely quite similar.
To define 'elephant rifle' (which is nebulous and difficult) requires the ability to quickly kill and immediately stop or render incapable of presenting a physical threat. Also needed is a weight limit to differentiate an elephant rifle and a bear rifle (both of which must take immediate effect). Also, and very important is the difference between 'killing' and 'stopping'. As previously mentioned, several (if not many) rifles will kill an elephant or such, but is not wise for such use in general.
Dunross
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Thanks for posting this. I was a quarter of the way into it before I realized I had read it first way back in high school.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
It goes back a long way -- the old X Minus One series even adapted for radio in the 1950s:
Catpop
Member
Can’t remember details but a chap named Baker? had a 2 bore black powder that killed on both ends. He named it BABY? I think that was an elephant gun.
Archie
Member
Catpop; I believe you are referring to Sir Samuel Baker. "Baby" did not kill on both ends; it killed on the front end and only battered to the rear. (Baker is alleged to have the servants shoot the rifle to allow cleaning.) However, he shot elephants, rhino and hippo with that rifle. Merely 'elephant' gun is rather limiting I think.
Same here, just don't hear that term like we did "back in the day".
A big heavy caliber that people actually use to hunt elephants efficiently with, which includes a number of big boppers. My .458 Win Mag is an entry level gun in that regard. Since it will likely never kill anything bigger than a pig, is it an elephant gun? It has the proper potential.
Ahh yes someone who understands me! I like this answer best even if it is not as technical or detailed as some of the others. It really captures the spirit of what I was asking more than some of the others.
I think the main issue here is despite all the great answers here there really isn't a correct way to answer my question the way I had originally intended it but I have had tons of fun reading through all the replies I love this community!
sarduy
Member
338 Lapua Magnum.
Grayrock
Member
Hesa Hard1
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Well, according to someone who should know - because he had, as they say, "boots firmly on the ground," i.e., John "Pondoro" Taylor - it was Jeffrey's.404.
Taylor called it, "The elephant rifle in Africa" in his magnum opus:
More than once he wrote that anyone hunting Africa who mentioned or talked about an "elephant rifle" meant a magazine rifle chambered for the .404 Jeff cartridge, ... like so:
AHR Custom .404 Jeffrey.
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troy fairweather
Member
There was a guy that used to hide in trees and unload a revolver into elephants ear, can't remember where or what gun.
someguy2800
Member
This thread has me searching gunbroker for rifles I can't afford, to hunt animals I can't afford, on a continent I'll never set foot on.
Hesa Hard1
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Yeah, but the fun part is in owning them and handloading for them at 'reduced' velocities so you can take them afield and kill deer, hogs, black bears, elk, and about anything else considered 'Big Game' in the lower 48.
For the more dangerous critters with the snappy jaws and sharp claws or heavy antlers and stompy hooves, you - or I - might sooner get up to Alaska than Africa.
Rifles and cartridge suitable for African game will also dispatch AK's brown bears, Grizzlies, and moose.
Caribou too, but those aren't that hard to kill. Heck, some of the native Inuits up there harvest caribou with SKSs and x39 ball ammo.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It's not really a generic term I would use but to me, it means a big bore double rifle .450/.400 or bigger. A stopping rifle.
someguy2800
Member
last I looked it’s even more expensive to hunt in Alaska than Africa!
codytrucker
Member
I've got a model 70 Winchester that was re-barreled to .404 Jeffery. Ironically , when i went to Africa i used a Howa .308 borrowed from the P.H. He had a 50 rnd. plastic box of ammo , told me i could use whichever i wanted , but he needed the full metal jackets for culling elephants with . So i guess that is the only real elephant gun i ever used. The only time I have been in any proximity to a rogue Elephant was when i lived in Honolulu in the 90's , they tried to stop that one with 9mm and 223, but it was a 30-30 that ended up doing the job.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It is! For what it costs to go to Alaska to hunt bear 'or' moose, you could take several head of African plains game. Probably have more fun doing it. My uncle has hunted all over the world, has dozens of trophies including a full mount Alaskan brown bear and muskox. Every time he goes to Alaska he nearly dies.
They also head shoot swimming caribou to stock up for winter. What the natives do isn't really relevant to the rest of us.
Space Ghost
Member
A lot of people agree on an elephant gun being a large caliber powerhouse in the .375 and up range. I've always wanted one myself, but I'll never be able to afford to go on an African safari, so it doesn't matter.
However...
I do have a Remington 700 Classic in 7x57, and a Spanish Mauser in the same caliber... I don't know about "more" altogether, but there was one single guy (W. D. M. Bell) who himself took over 1,000 with one.
So, yeah, I have an elephant gun... 2 of 'em. lol.
However...
I do have a Remington 700 Classic in 7x57, and a Spanish Mauser in the same caliber... I don't know about "more" altogether, but there was one single guy (W. D. M. Bell) who himself took over 1,000 with one.
So, yeah, I have an elephant gun... 2 of 'em. lol.
earplug
Member
Various nations have legal minimums for hunting elephants. Most start with #375. You won't be in Texas.
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earplug
Member
My mistake. The rules have changed and .375 will cover most nations. The new rules have a power floor.
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