what country to move to?

[Cannonball888]

OP, let me get this straight,
You want to abandon the USA if there is a Dem Prez and contribute to letting the socialists remain in power?
Better rethink that one.

 

[McCall911]

switzerland would be nice, but I hear its pretty hard to get residency there.

If you want to retire to Switzerland, you need an income (pension) of at least 100,000 Swiss francs (about $98,000 with the current weak dollar.)

Here is more:


http://www.switzerland.isyours.com/e/immigration/programs/non.eu.html

 

[jnyork]

If you are determined to move to some exotic country and do lots of shooting, here is a website to help you out: http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true

 

[DougDubya]

Retreat is never an option. VOTE! Get your fellow shooters to VOTE! CAMPAIGN!

Make it a bare squeak so that Obama can't say "I have the backing of a nation."

No, you have the backing of college students mentally poisoned by communist teachers looking to cornhole our nation.

As Captain America said, when offered the chance to surrender by the Chitauri leader "Does this A on my forehead look like it stands for France?"

 

[akodo]

if I recall correctly, Montana joined the union only on the terms and understanding that the right to keep and bear arms was an idividual right.

if tha is redefined, montana stops being a state, and becomes, well, something else.

So montana gets to be the fallback and rally-for-retake point if something goes wrong with our constitutional rights

 

[RNB65]

Liechtenstein, of course.

 

[Just Jim]

Those weren't military, they were Feds.

Driving the tanks and the military vehicles along with flying the military helicopter,I doubt it.

jj

 

[Geronimo45]

Panama, Guatemala.

 

[feedthehogs]

Since when has the US become a dictatorship with a supreme leader who controls all?

Were you asleep in class during basic goverment?

Although come to think of it the Alex Baldwins of the world would be better off in another country. that would leave the rest of us who have a clue better able to keep the right people in office.

 

[WayneConrad]

well the problem is we dont have any say so as to who is running for office

First off, sure you do. Get active in the major parties and you darn well do get to decide who they run.

Second, you can change the voting system so that other parties become viable choices. Push for instant runoff voting, first at the local level. That's what will break the hold of the two party system, and give you choices other than "the yucky one" and "the other yucky one."

Americans don't snivel. They work for change.

 

[koja48]

I reckon I'll just stay here in the USA & continue to pro-actively fight for my rights with votes & pen/keyboard.

 

[jfountain2]

Why wait, if you dislike it here so much that you don't want to stay and fight for your God given rights, then feel free to leave now. I personally will stay no matter who wins so I can do what I can to make sure my grandkids have their rights.

 

[IA_farmboy]

Those weren't military, they were Feds.

Driving the tanks and the military vehicles along with flying the military helicopter,I doubt it.

jj

The "tank" at Waco was an engineering vehicle. While based on a tank frame it was owned by the DEA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M728_Combat_Engineer_Vehicle

The ATF, FBI, and DEA, along with the retired Patton tank based vehicles, have used other former military vehicles like variants of the M113 armored personnel carrier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113#Law_Enforcement

There is no doubt that military were there, however they were "observers" and "advisers". Take that to mean what you will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege

The helicopters were listed as National Guard in the above Wiki article. They were acting in a "observer", "support" and/or law enforcement. They were armed with cameras, flash bangs, lights, and shotguns. Standard equipment for observing, except the shotguns which were unlikely to be very effective weapons at the ranges they were likely to be operating. The shotguns were probably a precaution if they had to land (or crash) in a hostile environment.

I'm not taking sides here just pointing out a few things. The FBI, DEA, and ATF are known to own former US military vehicles. The National Guard did show up, but were acting under the control of law enforcement as law enforcement. Calling them "military" or "law enforcement" gets fuzzy real quick.

The National Guard members obviously had military training. I imagine a not so insignificant portion of those law enforcement on the scene were former military. So the question still stands, would former or current military members act in opposition to the Constitution they swore to defend and forcefully disarm the public if ordered to do so?

Getting closer to the topic at hand I told my coworkers that if it came down to Giulliani and Clinton as the two leading candidates in the general election then I would move to Canada. I don't think that Canada's gun laws are any better or worse than the USA, just different. This is especially true since that like the USA each Canadian province, territory, and municipality can and do have certain rules on firearm ownership. I'd just need to choose wisely where exactly I chose to hang my hat. So far it looks like I won't have to move so I canceled my house hunting trip.

I don't think there exists a more firearm friendly nation than the USA. In the USA there are nine guns for every ten people. Depending on whom you ask 1/2 to 2/3 households here have firearms.

If things get too far out of hand I expect that we will have what a friend of mine calls a "reset function" occur. Yes kids, that means armed civil uprising. A wise man once said something like, "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until they try to take it away."

 

[DougDubya]

Know what? Let the cowards run off to some other nation. If they cut and run without voting, without campaigning, without trying to win common people over, who needs them?

They are lions with the brains and hearts of deer, rather than having hearts and minds of lions. This isn't Britain. This isn't France. This isn't a country for surrenderers and appeasers. Let 'em run.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

This will be locked soon,

With that in mind I don't know if I can move, I'll just have to ruff it out.

Now I understand that SAS and Delta were at Waco, anybody know anything about that.

 

[guntotinguy]

I reckon I'll just stay here in the USA & continue to pro-actively fight for my rights with votes & pen/keyboard.

+1 America is still the best Country in the world...Many would never abandon her in any hour of need!

 

[Picard]

I sure hope that people have the guts to stand up for their 2nd Amendment rights. I was surprised that in Louisiana, people just gave them up without a fight.

 

[IA_farmboy]

I sure hope that people have the guts to stand up for their 2nd Amendment rights. I was surprised that in Louisiana, people just gave them up without a fight.

I am not so surprised after seeing a certain video linked somewhere on THR. In that video they talked of police along with National Guard going around in groups (four or five I think) armed with AR-15s and M-16s putting people at gun point "asking" them to hand over their weapons.

I would do the same in that situation. You do not play lawyer when a machine gun is pointed in your general direction.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I am somewhat surprised to see this thread still going.

I would not consider moving to any other country. This one is fine. Name one that is better.

 

[Ethics]

You picked two countries that are incredibly hard to just get up and move to(legally anyways).

I could get my irish citizenship because my dad's an irish citizen, but I'd still have to wait a year. Australia is just as difficult as ireland.

Why would you want to leave America? This country has been through a lot worse than a couple of brain dead liberals ruining things.

 

[Picard]

You do not play lawyer when a machine gun is pointed in your general direction.

I'm not talking about playing lawyer, I'm talking about playing Patriot. Who would have stopped them if 50 or so citizens joined up and told the police to stop what they were doing and that it was unconstitutional. I understand that this probably would have led to a large retaliation by the government, but them not doing anything makes me think that nothing might happen if there were a large-scale confiscation.

 

[Ethics]

"VOTE! Get your fellow shooters to VOTE! CAMPAIGN!"

Unless you live in florida or michigan where your vote doesn't count...

 

[plexreticle]

Contrary to popular opinion the USA isn't the greatest place to live especially if you're middle class.

I'm not saying it's bad but there are many countries that offer the same or better quality of life for it's economic middle class.

True freedom isn't hunkering down and living paycheck to paycheck bitching about who the next idiot is gonna be for president.

 

[Picard]

True freedom isn't based on income or living conditions.

 

[IA_farmboy]

I'm not talking about playing lawyer, I'm talking about playing Patriot. Who would have stopped them if 50 or so citizens joined up and told the police to stop what they were doing and that it was unconstitutional. I understand that this probably would have led to a large retaliation by the government, but them not doing anything makes me think that nothing might happen if there were a large-scale confiscation.

I have heard that those that banded together were left alone by the police and the looters. I didn't see any news reports to the effect, just hearsay. It doesn't surprise me that it didn't make the news since it doesn't make for an interesting headline among the other things going on.

If people came to the police station with pitchforks and torches to get their firearms back, now *that* would be news.

One thing I don't like about these "what if" threads is that half the time the undesired outcome does not come to pass. I say that the discussion for which country to move to should wait until Clinton or Obama actually get elected to office. As it is this is WAY too early for such discussion. We still have yet to find out which of the two senators will actually run under the Democratic ticket for President.

There is also the Heller case to get decided, that should be next month. A favorable decision there is likely to short circuit any damage the Democrats could do to our RKBA.

If you are looking to move to assure your right to defend yourself then you might want to think about which STATE to move to. There are 37 (IIRC) shall issue states, I suggest you pick one before digging up your passport.