What do you think about a Presa Canario for a home defense dog?

[Chui]

The dogs look pretty athletic - long legs and not too blocky. How "sharp" is she?

 

[FLORIDA KEVIN]

they are beautiful dogs ! I only have seen 1 upclose ! It was the best trained dog I had ever seen !! on the other hand a local woman was killed by her own Presa last year sometime !!

 

[Glockafella]

I'd have one if I was single without kids

I have a female reverse brindle pit that has the exact type/color pattern as your beauty. My pit is only about 40 lbs...I like her small, muscular and lean. It is illegal to own "bull" or "pitbull" type breeds here. Lucky I am a police officer with great nieghbors. My kids love her to death and she gets along well with my 2 cats, guniea pig, and saltwater fish.

I am very much against "breed specific legislation" and I truely believe all animals, including pitbulls are born nice and sweet. It is how they are raised and trained that affects the behavior. However I had seen one of these beasts at a local petsmart that truely scared me. This dog was so massive it just walked...not jumped...into a 4X4 Ford F250 like it was nothing. The feet were bigger then mine it seemed.

My kids are kinda crazy when they get playing with my dog...luckily my dog is very loving and patient with the kids. If I were my dog I would have bit them at least a dozen times for the things Ive seen them do to her.

If u have kids use caution is all im sayin... If your single and have a house with a yard these dogs are perfect protectors of your stuff...not you!

Dont get a dog only because u want to look like a badass or scare people.

 

[brando]

I have a male South African Boerboel Mastiff and this dog does a great job in guarding my home along with my female Australian Shepherd. He's a massive dog with a huge head and lots of muscle. He has killed two skunks that have entered our back yard. He's very protective of his turf.

 

[loandr.]

Friday Night at the Fights....

BoerBoel Style...My babies Luma Zulu and Little Boomerang (New Pup

 

[kaizer]

man this thread should be retitled, giant brindle guard dogs. Here is my addition. We put the purple collar on him to try to break his spirit, it didn't work. By the way, those of us that know, know that brindle is more tactical!

 

[islandphish]

I currently have the opportunity to work with a Dutch man who specializes in selecting, breeding and training dogs for military, police, SAR, etc. He has been in the business for a long time and has placed many dogs in places such as Boston PD and Iraq.

When I saw this thread I asked him what he thought of the Presa and the other giganto "protection" breeds.

His words, "they are nothing." Why i asked? "They are like a balloon, one big bite and pffft nothing left". Remember that working dogs are trained with DRIVE. That is prey drive.

This man likes Belgian/Dutch Shepherds and Eastern European German Shepherds. He doesn't think much of the others, however he has shown me video of a pretty good Beauvier. He said he would rather have a Doberman than any of the big ones like the Presa.

Why? Look at video of working dogs. Some dogs can bite through obstacles better than others. For instance, jumping through a hoop with streamers to deliver a bite or jumping through a switch smacking them on the face. Many tough dogs will flinch and not bite properly when faced with this. Only a certain few dogs will truly have the stuff to make the bite with good form.

This guy trains KNPV, not Schutzhund, he has little respect for the sport of Schutzhund compared to KNPV. For those that don't know, KNPV is Dutch police dog training.

When it comes to protection I want a trained dog that I know will do what I want. Not a dog that has the physical traits, and I have to hope that protection instincts will kick in because even then he won't be as effective as the trained dog of lesser build.

 

[loandr.]

ANY Mosslar (and I have been handling, training and breeding them for more yrs. than I'd like to think about Will EAT you alive , No IF ands or BUTs This is serious, The wrong Mosslars (BB, persa, Corso etc...Mastiffs in general are Much more docile) will run right through you and tear you limb from limb literally...this is NOT acceptable for Police Work in most countries Nor in most locals. BUT please see it for what it is and always handle accordingly.

Loandr./BoerBoelGuy


* I prefer to show their softer side for good reason
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4KGG_R-ts&mode=related&search at about 3:10 you will briefly see a BB in "redzone".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy-RwdUEiq4 about midway through here you will see what inproper equiptment and poor baiting can yield, Check the Kitchen midvid when all Could have GONE bad Both (and could have been 4) men were useless for jaw removal.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=c2e73db3-d0f3-4962-ad3c-c2565eb66f8c&f=msnmovies&fg=copy Interesting Vid of Bite and fight Comparisons via breed by someone I have MUCH respecty for NOTE the Mosslar used is a Mastiff, Nothing Temp. wise as presa, BB or such. I think good gerneral intel though enjoy please.

Russ

 

[islandphish]

Assuming that an untrained Presa or BB will be as effective when biting, in the "red zone" as you say...how will you "out" that dog in the "red zone"?

Have you set yourself up to have a dog that will kill?

And really, back to the point of the whole thread...do you want a dog that you can't call off and that will kill when he SNAPS and hits the "red zone" as a home defense dog?

I don't.

 

[loandr.]

If one starts when young and consistant NO DIFF. when training than ANY other aggressive bully type breed (JUST less margin for error), hence yes CAN be reliably called off, I DO NOT recc. here in the US more due to the intensive nature of the efforts needed to keep that margin to nil.Otherwise I agree Boomer is a registered therapy Dog as well as Certified Canine Good Citizen and Love both young and old AT 1YR. OLD. Truly priceless. For the record I dont condone ANY untrained canine, mosslar or otherwise to engage in bite training please.

LD

 

[Jack A. Sol]

It's my understanding that this is THE most viscous attack (not home defence) dogs ever bred. they are extremely aggressive and can be unpredictable and any attack would probably be deadly. you should be prepared to keep an eye on this dog and under 100% control at all times. if it ever got loose and attacked someone you would most likly be facing manslaughter charges. if you dont care about the safety of you and your family , friends and nieghbors , or the legal aspects of ownership then I'd say go ahead and get one!!

 

[islandphish]

with respect, one instant we are talking about how great these dogs are when in the red zone. The next instant we are saying that if trained properly then you can out them, implying that they are under control and not in a red zone.

It's one or the other. And going back to my first post, according to my source whose credentials with working dogs are top notch, the presas do not have what is needed for quality bite work, when working under control. Under control being the only safe and reasonable way to own and train one.

Jack A. Sol says that he understands they are THE most vicious attack dogs. That is not what we want for a home defence dog. Attack dogs are menaces for times of war and other extreme situations. Home defence dogs are discriminating, intelligent, tenacious, heavy drive dogs that are trained to a very high level.

If I lived in lion or jaguar country on an open range with little to no human contact I might want a BB or presa, for real life in modern times I'll take a quality Belgian/Dutch/German Shepherd.

Not trying to make this a breed x is the only way, that's not my point. Presas are ill qualified for most people's idea of a home defence dog is my point.

 

[loandr.]

"Presas are ill qualified for most people's idea of a home defence dog is my point."

Agreed. for Most. The above Vid of jackson Temp. Test will show JUST how formidable of a force a BB can be at the Front door, It will also show that NOTHING means more to it than complying with Mama WHEN called off, She has done well with him IMO. And its nice to see all living in harmony there.

 

[cdngirl]

Have one. A five yr old male I have owned for 2.5 yrs. I did my homework. He has two jobs. First and foremost he takes care of our home and property. Secondly, he is our companion. A pretty darned good one too. Several comments have been made by friends that he is so sweet and loveable. They will not see the "defensive" side of him. All I can say is that at 2am if somebody turns up in my fenced and gated yard of 6 acres, which has posted warning signs - they are not coming for tea and biscuits - but they deserve what is coming to them.

 

[Nix]

any dog, even a teacup poodle is effective for deterring crime. if your looking for something that will 1 on 1 a criminal then you should get an exotic pet license and look into a bear. Three years ago in ny a police dog got ahead of his owner and went after a criminal, the criminal snapped the police dogs neck. Dogs are good for assistance but they are not a solve all. However for deterrance of criminal activity they are better than a security system imo

 

[loandr.]

same set up here Cdn, and very good points trust me you DON'T want to get caught up in the middle of this....:banghead: DRATS...caught sleeping on the job again Enjoy

LD

 

[IronsFire]

First post. I have a good friend who has had Goldens all her life and hunts with 'em. When her husband died she got herself a new pup, and trained her as she had all her dogs. The dog, a female Golden, is one of the finest trained dogs I've ever seen. I've known this dog for two years now. One night several of us were hanging at her house and I slapped my friend in the arm, friendly like, and my voice was raised. That dog was on me like a shot. 34 stitches and I thought I would lose my arm. And she was called off in seconds! A Golden Retriever. She treats me fine now, but I'll never raise my voice or my hand to my friend again. Not around that dog.

 

[loandr.]

I hear ya Iron Fire and diff things for diff. households BUT HERE...THAT in NO wayyy shape nor form would be tolerated ...a known friend to my furbabiesand I in my home, UNLESS under the most diverse holstile of circumstance NEEDS to be seen as family, anything short OF that...I'D shut down HARD! and fast as the owner (and this may mean diff. things dep. on dog and owner) Just my opinion and most importantly glad to hear your OK

LD

 

[IronsFire]

Why thanks loandr! I healed, and got a good bar story out of it. Course it's not a Golden when I tell it!

To be fair, I side with the dog. I'm a big man, who with a raised voice touched her owner in a way that made her jump away from me. The way I see it the dog didn't give a damn who I was, I attacked her someone she was protective of.

The dog's owner, a friend of I don't know how many years, paid all my bills without being asked, wanted to pay me for lost work, but I didn't lose any, and gave my Harley a bath for six months whenever I asked. No hard feelings there. She shut that dog down fast, and let her know she was out of line. Anything else she had no control over.

My point is, a good dog will protect you if you're threatened, no matter how mellow you think they may be.

 

[loandr.]

Dammmm. 2 posts and I like you already....MY kind of Dog guy at heart
Although the above NOT acceptable for ALL households im sure you agree.
For example your size, skill level NOR religion would NOT have made a diff. in the "wrong yard" ....IF that happened here you would (and I say this in all seriousness) have wound up Armless, perhaps from the shoulder down, You most likely would have passed from blood loss and hermorage before medical attention arrived and your surviving family and I would now be locked in a civil legal battle costing me 100's of thousands (Potenially) and WORST of all to I, even in MY yard, most likely my baby would have been the one blamed and dealt with....................................SO as you can imagine, the "Bad dog...back off" approach just dosent cut it everywhere, i cannot afford 1% margin for error and you sir are 100% correct when you say even the most docile pup will protect HIS owner....just one more reason the "GO HOT" can ONLY repeat ONLY be on owners cue, the dog MUST have NO say in this, and it can take yrs. to accomplish in mosslars (weither verbal or otherwise) AGAIN great story and sounds like the owner sincerely did her best...my hats off to you both, I hoped she used the expierence as a learning lesson (one does not get many in the canine world) and saves herself, the pup and others any similar expierences

 

[Fred Fuller]

Molossers as a rule are definitely NOT 'for everybody.' That should be a given. But to blanket them as "attack dogs" is wrong as well as wrong-headed. They are what they are- guard dogs who are pretty much only concerned with their territory and their people. They aren't attack dogs nor are they family pets in the usual sense of the word- they are working dogs. They don't need 'bite work' or attack training. They need basic obedience training and socialization. Their protective instincts are just that- instinctive. They don't need to be trained to protect as a rule, that protective instinct kicks in on its own as the dog matures, in a molosser with proper temperament that is.

My main experience with molossers as a group is with Filas. As molossers are a group of dogs consisting of several different specific breeds with individual breed characteristics, it's not appropriate to generalize too much about the group. I know Filas better than I know any other molosser breed, having only encountered some of the others (Dogos, Presas, Neos, Tibetans etc) at various show events.

As to Filas, if you want to know the breed, talk to a good breeder. They know them better than anyone else. Here are a few Fila breeders I know- read what they have to say about their chosen breed at their websites:

http://www.southlandfarms.com/html/are_you_ready_for_a_fila_.html

http://www.eanlo.com/index_files/Page390.htm

http://cariocakennel.com/breedinfo.htm

http://www.nodibkennels.com/

No matter what dog/breed you choose- make sure you KNOW your breed and your individual dog. Make sure your dog is fully trained, make sure you can 'read' your dog's body language, and don't ever make the mistake of putting your dog in a position where the dog feels it is necessary to protect you- no matter what breed it is. You're supposed to be smarter than your dog, after all.

lpl/nc

 

[loandr.]

some true DEAD on words of wisdom above IMO

 

[whited]

.

It is my feeling on the subject that the desire to own one of these exotic,
large, fierce looking, expensive, and deadly breeds for "home defense"
arises (in most cases) from a person's strange fascination with the dogs
themselves, and not from any actual need. I understand that it would be
very seductive to have one so that you could tell your friends about it and
impress guests (as long as the guests are indoors and the dog is outdoors),
but I do not believe there is a requirement for the capabilites of these dogs
outside of very sensivite and very limited applications.

Is there anything to be gained by having some huge snarling monstrosity
versus a GSD or other common breed? No, there is not. An intruder will be
just as deterred by a barking/growling German Shepherd Dog as he will be
by a Fila. The extra time and money necessary to own one of these
ridiculously expensive and powerful breeds (not to mention the added RISK)
is wasted. There is no added utility with these dogs. For 95% of us, they
are nothing more than a liability.

 

[stevereno1]

Very high level of liability with one of those dogs. I prefer a small dog tha barks loud enough to wake me up." never mind the dog, beware of owner."

 

[VonFireball]

The liability lies with the dogs training, not particular breed. Also, the breeding program that the dogs came from is extremely important.

I owned and bred american pitbull terriers for some time. They require more work and exercise than most people can provide. But with the effort the results are well worth it and liability is minimized.

I once ordered this puppy from a breeder in NY. It was a great looking dog, black and white male with a white tip on his tail and black spots on his white front legs. He was ADBA registered and I was to use him to breed to a brindle female of UKC purple ribbon registration so I had to get a UKC for the male.

To do that I had to make a video of the dog in a public place, showing it's non aggression towards people and other animals. Well, this dog was huge at 90+lbs and looked every bit the man eater. He was powerful to say the least. Well, this woman had a shopping cart with a newborn baby in it. The lady says "cute dog" and I'm like "yeah, thanks" while trying to lead this monster in the opposite direction....well before I get there Floyd (the dog) stands up to the cart, and I'm thinking "NO!" before I could say it he licks this little babies face so gently, all while being filmed. I mean, I didn't expect him to attack or anything of course but he was so powerful of an animal he could knock a whole shopping cart over without trying.

It really sold me on those dogs. They have so much natural intelligence that can be utilized. They seem to "read" situations and emotions very well. Definitely not deserving the nasty reputation they get.

So, like I said, liability is genetics and training.