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mljdeckard
Member
Again, how can it possibly fire from that position if the hammer is down?
What does 'loaded' mean?
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RETG
Member
This for open carry only; not concealed carry
Whether or not the weapon can be fired by pulling the trigger, the firing position implies; for a revolver, that a round is in the chamber of the cylinder that is lined up with the barrel. For a semi-auto, a round in the chamber of the barrel.
Whether or not a modern firearm can fire from that position is of no concern to an officer of the law, if he needs to check your firearm to make sure you are following the law. Even though this is Utah, people still call LE about a man with a gun, and the responding officer still has to check for a permit or other legal ID to carry a weapon loaded. If no permit or other ID is produced, the LEO is instructed to check the weapon itself for compliance with the law as stated.
For a revolver, the next chamber to be lined up with the barrel when the cylinder is rotated. Therefore, you need to pull the trigger twice to fire a round. First action rotates the cylinder to the next open chamber, the second action rotates the cylinder to a loaded chamber and the revolver fires the round.
For a semi-auto, magazine can be fully loaded, but nothing in the barrel. First action, rack the slide back and load a round, second action, pull the trigger.
And if you do not think this is correct, a quick call to the Utah Bureau of Criminal Investigation will supply you with the same basic answer. 801-965-4445
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mljdeckard
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Because it's poorly written law. It should define "firing position".
And RETG I'll ask you the exact same thing as everyone else. How can the cartridge behind the barrel possibly fire if the hammer is down? Suggesting that it could cook off is ridiculous, as anything that might cause it to cook off would also cook off the rest of the ammo as well. This is referring to how the firearm functions, not mechanical failures.
And RETG I'll ask you the exact same thing as everyone else. How can the cartridge behind the barrel possibly fire if the hammer is down? Suggesting that it could cook off is ridiculous, as anything that might cause it to cook off would also cook off the rest of the ammo as well. This is referring to how the firearm functions, not mechanical failures.
if i wanted to carry but didnt want to get my permit i think i would deffinately have have a semi auto simply becaus a revolver is already a low capacity piece and if you take any more from i you might as well just keep the ammo in your pocket so the need for this discussion in MY OPINION is about pointless
gc70
Member
mljdeckard said:
I think you are much too knowledgeable about firearms to go to court over this question. The average judge would probably consider "the firing position" to be where a bullet was pointing down the barrel. That a hammer-down revolver could not actually fire a round in that position would be superfluous to the simplistic observation that the bullet was pointing down the barrel.
Technically, a cocked revolver with an empty chamber under the hammer and the rest of the chambers loaded would satisfy the law's requirements.
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mljdeckard
Member
How is it the firing position if it can't fire?
NavyLCDR
member
Because, if you cock the hammer, the firing position is now the cylinder that is aligned with the barrel. Of course the chamber of a semi-auto is always the firing position. UTAH statutes do not take into account all the nuances of a SAO, DAO, or DA/SA revolver. The firing position is always considered to be that in which a round is in line with the barrel regardless of if the hammer is cocked or not. Period. That's it.
And then with a double action revolver, the next chamber must be empty as well because one pull of the trigger will cause the gun to fire.
The easiest way around all this crap in Utah is to get a permit.
If you don't want to believe us, fine, you don't have to. I'll go over this one more time for you though.
The firing position is the chamber that is aligned with the barrel. That is the position from which a bullet is fired. Bullets are not fired from any other chamber.
Yes, it is true that in an uncocked revolved the bullet that is initially in that position will be the last one to be fired. However, it makes its way back to that same position. It is fired from that position. If really can not get any simpler.
You don't have to believe us. If you really don't want to lose the bet you can go out and find some cop, lawyer, or judge and ask them, but I'd wager that you'll still lose your bet.
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mljdeckard
Member
I'll try the BCI. If I have time.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there isn't any state authority who will tell me that two chambers must be empty on a revolver for it to be considered unloaded.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there isn't any state authority who will tell me that two chambers must be empty on a revolver for it to be considered unloaded.
Blackbeard
Member
If you ask me, ANY live rounds within a gun make it loaded. Utah disagrees.
JN01
Member
And I thought Ohio had some odd CCW restrictions. Sheesh 
W.E.G.
Member
"Loaded" means whatever the presiding judge wants it to mean.
For $20,000.00 or so a person who disagrees with the trial judge can find out what the appellate judge thinks it means.
For $20,000.00 or so a person who disagrees with the trial judge can find out what the appellate judge thinks it means.
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