What HPs expand from a 4" .38?

[genxsis]

I have a 4" barreled S&W .38 Model 10-5 that is for defense. I bought some Remington 125g SWCHP that are +P rated. I did some tests to see how they would perform, and this is what I found:

Fired into a water jug, the bullets expanded. But when fired at the water jug with even a single layer of clothing in front of it, and there was no expansion at all. I tried several times, and the results were the same.

I believe this load is noted to have a 73% stopping power, but I wonder if they really would behave better than ball ammo if it doesn't expand when fired in a real defense situation.

Does anyone here know of other .38 Special ammo that actually does expand reliably?

 

[ugaarguy]

www.brassfetcher.com

 

[Mike Harbour]

See Mr. Camp...

...a former police officer and down-to-earth good guy who knows his handguns. He's got a great Web site chock full of helpful info and firearms reviews, as well as ammo tests. Since he's a private citizen and not a professional writer, he doesn't get factory freebies or blow smoke.

Here's a link to some tests he recently posted at his hipowersandhandguns site that should be helpful:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Special Expansion Tests.htm

In addition, a recent gun rag (from the prolific Harris Publishing guys) had a .38 Special ammo test, but I'll be danged if I can find it right now. When I do, I'll post the issue info.

Mike Harbour
Texan by birth, Montanan by choice

 

[Sistema1927]

Look at the Speer Gold Dot 135 "short barrel" load on the brass fetcher site. Good in a snubby, even better in a 4 incher.

 

[357wheelgunner]

Back when all of the police used the model 10 they had lots of success with the 158gr LHP +P. The 4" barrel gives the soft bullet with its deep HP plenty of velocity to expand. Remington still loads it, Winchester used to.

 

[genxsis]

Thank you for those websites! That will be alot of information to read through! I'll bet I'll get quite a bit of benefit from reading what's there.

 

[Jim March]

I am not aware of any rounds that are good in a 2" but fail in a 4".

What that means is, look at the data on which rounds work in a 2", and use those rounds in a 4" knowing you simply have more safety margin to work with.

The best 2" barrel 38+P rounds I know of are:

* Remington 158gr+P lead hollowpoint.

* Speer Gold Dot 135gr+P. (Note that Speer also loads this slug 250fps hotter as a mild 357Mag, so if you shoot the 38+P version from a 4", you're still well within it's "sweet spot" as Speer sees it...)

* Winchester 130gr Supreme +P JHP.

* Cor-Bon 110gr DPX +P (all-copper hollowpoint, deep punch for it's weight class).

* Buffalo Bore's wild-child 158gr+P lead hollowpoint - does 1,000fps from a 2" barrel, puts a 38 snubby into 9mm horsepower territory.

Once you get into a 4" tube, a few additional rounds seem to work:

* Winchester's version of the 158+P lead hollowpoint - has a harder lead alloy than the Remmie version, otherwise same horsepower. Possibly a bit deeper punch from a 4" tube and gets up enough speed to expand in most available tests.

* Various 125gr+P Gold Dot rounds as loaded by Speer and others.

Notes:

1) Speer has stopped selling Gold Dot slugs to other ammo houses, so some good rounds by Buffalo Bore, Black Hills, Georgia Arms and others have dropped off the list.

2) 158gr +P plain lead rounds may have problems in lightweight snubbies. Masaad Ayoob says the Remmie and Winchester versions should be shot in 15oz or above guns only, which sounds about right. If that's the case, the BuffBore monster version needs a 19oz or heavier gun. The problem is that lead being slick and the recoil being high, they tend to "yank" under recoil coming out of the shells of rounds not yet fired and poke out the front of the cylinder - tying the gun up. Speer claims their 135s resist such "yanking" in very light 10.5oz and 12.5oz S&Ws...Corbon says likewise about the 110 DPX+P.

My 38 snubbie weighs 17oz and I don't think going any lighter would be a good idea. I have not experienced any yanking and I'm fond of the Remmie 158+P lead hollowpoint. I don't think my gun can cope with the Buffbores - it's a classic Charter Arms Undercover in excellent condition.

 

[357wheelgunner]

"2) 158gr +P plain lead rounds may have problems in lightweight snubbies. Masaad Ayoob says the Remmie and Winchester versions should be shot in 15oz or above guns only, which sounds about right. If that's the case, the BuffBore monster version needs a 19oz or heavier gun. The problem is that lead being slick and the recoil being high, they tend to "yank" under recoil coming out of the shells of rounds not yet fired and poke out the front of the cylinder - tying the gun up. "

Would a longer .357 mag chamber help to keep this from happening?

 

[p35]

The Cor-Bon 110 grain .38 round (the standard HP, not DPX) is reported to chrono out faster than a lot of 110 grain .357s. I carry it in my Detective Special.