What is a liberal?

[R.H. Lee]

I sell the stock, and make a dollar again, right? It is then taxed...AGAIN. This same dollar has now been taxed twice.

No, actually you're only taxed on the gain, the difference between the amount you paid for the stock and the amount you sold it for. An example of double taxation would be dividends; they're a portion of profits distributed to shareholders but not deductable to the corporation and taxable to the recipient.

The purpose of the estate tax is to prevent another ruling aristocratic class from developing over several generations.

 

[ceetee]

Actually, you still are taxed on it again... when you go to spend it. Sales tax hits softer, but more relentlessly.

 

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

Actually, you still are taxed on it again... when you go to spend it. Sales tax hits softer, but more relentlessly.

Ok...this what happens when I post from work. I apologize, and thank ceetee for pointing out the error.

I meant to mention the sales tax.

Now, Oregon doesn't have a sales tax, but I work in Washington state, which means that every time I go out for lunch, i pay a tax. Every time I go do my dry cleaning, I get hit with a sales tax. Everytime I ...you get the idea.

not to mention property tax...

 

[Kaylee]

First -- to the Churchill quote -- it seems you're correct inasmuch as it may be falsely attributed to him. As to the quote itself -- it rings quite true to me. In our youth, it's easy to come up with simple-sounding solutions For The Betterment of All, typically based on some kind of nice and fuzzy socialist worldview. Over time, as people see the results of that thinking, it's quite common for folks to become more politically conservative (as defined in the modern US).

That's not calling (modern American) liberals stupid.. it is noting that the (modern American) liberal has a distinct tendency to let ideology trump observation, to the detriment of all. Or as Reagan said "It's not that our liberal friends are ignorant.It's just that they know so much that just isn't so."

Now...

Otherwise, I'm firmly in the camp of "If you've got a better idea, let's hear it." All most people want to do is backseat driving, without offering any other solutions...

The thing is, new ideas aren't really required. Plenty of old ones work just fine. Emphasize individual responsibility, accountability, and self-reliance, and the result is a strong, properous nation. Try to solve everyone's problems for them, and you end up discouraging individual betterment both on the part of the ones you take resources from, and especially in those you give them to. The result is a slovenly culture.

You want actual policy suggestions, the books are out there. But not nearly so much will be solved with new policies so much as phasing out the old.

 

[one eyed fatman]

-------------------------------

Picky, picky, picky, Mr TuffPaws.

So, what agenda do you stand FOR?

The bottom line, sadly, is that you and your fellow-travelers will be my enemies in the NEXT Civil War.

I know that... and you know that.

Be prepared, son.

Now how did I know there would be a post like this one.

I think if there is a next civil war we will be joining ranks to get rid of our government not each other. Course I'll be long ago dead when or if that happens.

 

[ceetee]

The thing is, new ideas aren't really required. Plenty of old ones work just fine. Emphasize individual responsibility, accountability, and self-reliance, and the result is a strong, properous nation. Try to solve everyone's problems for them, and you end up discouraging individual betterment both on the part of the ones you take resources from, and especially in those you give them to. The result is a slovenly culture.

You want actual policy suggestions, the books are out there. But not nearly so much will be solved with new policies so much as phasing out the old.

I never asked for a new idea. I asked for a better one... I don't have the answer. (Neither does Mr. Bush, for that matter, so I don't feel that alone.)

Assume somebody elected you President. The next four years are all yours. What do you do?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I never asked for a new idea. I asked for a better one... I don't have the answer. (Neither does Mr. Bush, for that matter, so I don't feel that alone.)

Assume somebody elected you President. The next four years are all yours. What do you do?

Since I am a Constitutionalist, and the president's legitimate powers internally are few, Constitutionally there wouldn't be a whole lot I could do, other than to start functioning within the confines of the Constitution and vetoing every piece of unconstitutional legislation that comes my way. Anything that is done through the executive branch which is not authorized by the Constitution would certainly come to a stop. It would take, however, more than a conservative president to right what has been so badly wronged in this country.

One thing I would do for sure, however, would be to use the bully pulpit to educate the American people to the best of my ability regarding where our nation has gone wrong, and what is needed to place it back on the right track.

 

[Biker]

Which brings me to another point, not too far off topic, I hope. Would it be possible for a sitting POTUS to sign an executive order repealing certain gun laws, simply with a stroke of his pen?
Biker

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Which brings me to another point, not too far off topic, I hope. Would it be possible for a sitting POTUS to sign an executive order repealing certain gun laws, simply with a stroke of his pen?
Biker

I don't believe so. That is not within his legitimate powers, as far as I understand them. He could, however, decide not to enforce those laws during his presidency, i.e., issue an order that they are not to be enforced, since they are, in his judgment, unconstitutional.

 

[one eyed fatman]

I never asked for a new idea. I asked for a better one... I don't have the answer. (Neither does Mr. Bush, for that matter, so I don't feel that alone.)

Assume somebody elected you President. The next four years are all yours. What do you do?

Pick me! Pick me! Pick me! I know what to do. I'd do what everyone else is doing these days. Stuffing as much money in my unworthy pockets as I can and then walk away. It seems to be the in thing for government and corporations to do these days. The only thing these people are proud of is how much money they have in the bank. The people who run America these days have become a sad bunch of...... Isn't there a butt icon here?

 

[Biker]

I don't believe so. That is not within his legitimate powers, as far as I understand them. He could, however, decide not to enforce those laws during his presidency, i.e., issue an order that they are not to be enforced, since they are, in his judgment, unconstitutional.

Now that's shame in one way, but a good thing in another way, I guess. I just seem to recall Clinton making some relatively sweeping changes using the Ex. order. I could be wrong...
Thanks for the reply.
Biker

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Now that's shame in one way, but a good thing in another way, I guess. I just seem to recall Clinton making some relatively sweeping changes using the Ex. order. I could be wrong...
Thanks for the reply.
Biker

The legitimate purpose of the executive order is to empower the president to execute the laws made by Congress. Clinton used them illegitimately to make new laws to his liking. You probably already knew that, though.

 

[Biker]

The legitimate purpose of the executive order is to empower the president to execute the laws made by Congress. Clinton used them illegitimately to make new laws to his liking. You probably already knew that, though.

True enough, I'm just not familiar with the legal mechanisms at work with this power, as in how far can the POTUS take it? The 'pardon power' alone baffles me.

Biker

 

[No_Brakes23]

No offence, but I really do hate it when people whip that quote out. It is used merely to imply that 'liberals' are stupid.

No, it also is used to imply that conservatives are heartless.

 

[JJpdxpinkpistols]

The bottom line, sadly, is that you and your fellow-travelers will be my enemies in the NEXT Civil War.
I know that... and you know that.
Be prepared, son.

OK. Thanks for the heads up!

Now...where did I put that big ole roll of tinfoil. You need a hat to match mine!

 

[ctdonath]

Assume somebody elected you President. The next four years are all yours. What do you do?

Two parts.

Economic:
- Year 1 - balanced budget
- Subsequent years - 20% budget reduction annually
- No budget accepted unless each supporting Congressman personally signs each page of budget, indicating full review & understanding

Rights:
- Feature one BoR right every 4 months
- Commission identifies transgressing laws
- Executive order refuses executive-branch enforcement unless court rules otherwise on per-law basis

Keep it simple. Don't get caught up in minutia. Balanced budget, smaller budget, take BoR at face value, arguable rights suppression not enforced unless court approved.

 

[RealGun]

- Commission identifies transgressing laws

Are you suggesting an authority higher than Congress? Care to expand this concept?

 

[NCP24]

Are you suggesting an authority higher than Congress? Care to expand this concept?

The last time I checked Congress was not the supreme law of the land.

 

[ceetee]

Are you suggesting an authority higher than Congress? Care to expand this concept?

Like the Supreme Court, only... supremer.




(As a quick aside, who's the only President in the last few decades to set a balanced budget?)

 

[NCP24]

Like the Supreme Court, only... supremer.

I can't see supremer.

 

[ceetee]

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"...

 

[Henry Bowman]

Like the Supreme Court, only... supremer.

Like the Constitution, maybe?

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

I think that quote, or something like it, is more often attributed to George Bernard Shaw. He was a socialist, at least during some part of his life, and the original quote I'm familiar with is more like, (paraphrasing) Anyone who isn't a socialist by age 20 has no heart; anyone who is still a socialist at age 30 has no head.

I've always taken it to mean that it's relatively easy to have high ideals such as freedom and equality early in life when one would have little personally to lose in making risky changes with social institutions and classes. As one ages, one has life experience that teaches that, for instance, market forces are real and can't be wished away with philosophy or laws. It also means one at a later stage in life would have more vested interests to protect: property, income, etc. So on the one hand it points toward more wisdom and experience later in life, on the other hand to a form of moral cowardice that I've observed in people as they get older.

None of this has anything to do with what most people mean when they refer to liberalism or conservatism. Some so-called conservatives have just done a good job of painting any liberal position as a form of socialism, e.g: "regulated capitalism" = "communism".

 

[Henry Bowman]

How do you equate socialism with freedom and equality?

 

[coylh]

Assume somebody elected you President. The next four years are all yours. What do you do?

Close all foreign military bases. Skip the next war. Refuse to sign any law I can't fully read during lunch. Write my own State Of The Union speech.