Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What is Project Appleseed?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by MeanStreaker, Feb 18, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MeanStreaker

    MeanStreaker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    So, what is Project Appleseed? I've gotten some PMs from folks asking.......

    The 30 second pitch is that Project Appleseed is a non-profit, all-volunteer organization that has the goal of returning America to a Nation of Riflemen.

    From the founding of our country, to just a couple generations ago, the vast majority of Americans could pick up any rifle over the mantle and shoot that rifle effectively. Unfortunately, our Nation has collectively lost that skill. Appleseed can teach somebody that has never touched a rifle before how to safely (most important) and effectively shoot out to 500 yards with iron sights and ordinary ammo. This skill is easily obtained with some practice and persistence.

    You'll learn The Six Steps to Firing the Shot, offhand, sitting, kneeling, prone positions (no benchrests at Appleseed), how to use a sling, how to zero a rifle, how to effectively adjust your sights by understanding Minute of Angle and what that means to your rifle, plus a ton more. There are fun and challenging drills throughout the weekend that will keep everyone from the newest noob to an expert marksman High Power champion entertained and improving.

    More important than the marksmanship instruction, is that attendees will hear the events of the founding of our country. Specifically, you will hear about the events that occurred on April 19, 1775 when our American War for Independence officially began in Lexington and Concord. If we are taught anything nowadays about important events like Paul Revere’s famous ride and that day’s victory against the world's most powerful military force (the British Regulars) won by common citizens, we almost always hear more myth than fact. Project Appleseed was founded upon the belief that a responsible and active citizen requires the understanding of how our liberties were won. Participants will hear that history directly from fellow Americans passionate about the events of that day. You can be assured that there will be no boring textbooks or dry lectures. Attendees will participate in an entertaining and factual account of those that sacrificed to win our freedom.

    On top of that, it's a great family friendly setting. We have whole families show up (women and children shoot free!) and just enjoy the weekend with like-minded folks. The majority of people that come to the program feel deep down in their gut that something is wrong with America and we're straying from our Founding Principles. I hate to say it like this because it sounds corny, but I get reminded of the ending of Field of Dreams where there are a line of cars coming to the baseball diamond, and they're not even sure why.

    It doesn't matter what your specific political issue is. Appleseed doesn't care. We don't touch modern politics. We just feel that teaching people basic marksmanship and making as many sleeping Americans (so bring your friends!) really think about the sacrifices that common folks just like us made to secure unprecedented freedom will get this country back on track. We lead the proverbial horse to water to wake them up... then they go off inspired to get active to work in making a difference in what is important to them. So be sure to bring those sleeping Americans with you that are more interested in American Idol than voting.

    Here's a review I wrote up after my first Appleseed in 2006. More info, including the national schedule (over 300 shoots coast to coast), forums, and a great blog can be found at http://www.appleseedinfo.org

    If you want more details, I look forward to speaking with you. Please feel free to ask questions and send me PMs. I look forward to seeing you (and your friends!) on the line! As you may have seen, we have locations all across our great nation this year. Nobody is "too far" from Appleseed anymore. :) If you are, then find private land or a range with a good backstop and 25 m firing line and we can bring Appleseed to you!
     
  2. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    USA
    Project Appleseed is what keeps FRED's from filling your orders.
     
  3. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,988
    Project Appleseed also gives Fred a chance to spout some weird stuff...

    Like how it's going to save America.

    From what, I don't know, but he's determined to get that in there, every damned issue of Shotgun News.

    Getting folks out to practice marksmanship, ala' the Nation of Riflemen or the DCM/CMP? That's way cool.

    Babbling about being prepared for an as yet unannounced (insert UN Blue Helmet invasion/rogue government/crackdown on gunowners/BOHICA/TEOTWAWKI) scenario where you'll save the day with your single firearm?

    Creepy.

    What's his plan after the Rifleman bit? He works so hard to upgrade people from "Cook" status, is that all he's got?

    IOW, what about the Intel and Counter-Intel folks, the Supply personnel, the Battle Staff, etc? Cooks are quite necessary in the general scheme of things, too.

    Of course, he's not broadcasting the means or intent to foment another American Revolution. He doesn't need that kind of attention.

    But I have to ask, why all the fuss and hoopla about simply getting people out to the range to shoot, wrapped in the trappings of some sort of 3rd Echelon Underground Partisan recruitment drive?

    And that's why I wonder if Fred is an unwitting member of the Threeper clan, long on style but short on substance.

    Appleseed is fun, and teaches the oft-forgotten skills of marksmanship. Period. Don't paint it or glorify it as anything else. :(

    I've spent a lot of time shooting competitively, and Fred may very well have been squadded with me at Camp Perry on one or more occasions. I've also qualified expert in rifle and pistol during my 20+ year military career, with the chest trash to prove it. Fred had best not be calling folks "cooks" indiscriminately, because some of those "cooks" have actually seen the elephant.

    I like what Appleseed is doing to get folks out shooting. I'll not attend one, especially if half of what I read in Fred's disjointed Shotgun News diatribes is present at those Appleseed shoots. Hell, he's more than welcome to call me a cook. ;)
     
  4. MeanStreaker

    MeanStreaker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    Appleseed only does two things, and does them well:

    1. Teaches basic marksmanship
    2. Gives factual history lessons about April 19, 1775

    Absolutely nothing more, nothing less.

    I guarantee you you'll hear nothing about what's above at any Appleseed shoot. That junk has nothing to do with Appleseed.

    And yes, after one can score at least 210/250 on the AQT target at an Appleseed to earn your "Rifleman" patch, then the real work begins...... Teaching others!

    The program can save America. From what? Apathy and ignorance. When somebody (most of my peers - I'm 28) who has no idea about our Constitution, Founding Principles, and how they were achieved learns about the sacrifices of normal citizens for our benefit, it wakes them up and they get active politically - writing legislators, voting, etc. I've seen it happen countless times.

    Hopefully none of us are against that goal.
     
  5. lipadj46

    lipadj46 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,884
    I've never been but it would be interesting to go to one to maybe pick up some good technique pointers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  6. Lovesbeer99

    Lovesbeer99 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,413
    Ok I have some questions -
    1. Who is Fred and why is he important, or impotent?
    2. Why are so many rounds needed at Appleseed? I shot often and understand the mechanics of taking a good shot. You can practice with 50 rounds and have a good session and I've done it with 10. 100 could be better, definately more fun, but why 500 rounds in a weekend? I'd think my single shot, no mag, no tube Marlin 100 would be a great training tool, but I could not fire as many rounds as the guy next to me with a semi auto. Not that 500 rounds is horrible, and could be fun, but is it needed? Really?

    3. Does Appleseed put out a manual or is it all instruction?
     
  7. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,863
    Is this Fred the same Fred who wrote a column for Shotgun News about a decade ago, maybe a little less? Boris and the UN guys in APCs getting harassed by Riflemen with their M1A1s, that sort of thing?
     
  8. lipadj46

    lipadj46 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,884
    Yes and also of Fred's M14 Stocks which used to be the best place to get a USGI M14 stock. He used to be slow and then if was a 50/50 chance you would get your stock then then as time went by the odds were less and less you would get your stock. He will still take your order though and who knows if you are lucky you still may get one. Pretty much Appleseed is his bread and butter now not M14 stocks. Which is a shame because he is still probably sitting on the biggest pile of M14 stocks anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  9. rino451

    rino451 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    545
    There is a manual.

    500rnds because each string is ten shots from 4 different positions. Not to mention all the time spend just getting one's rifle zero'ed and identify all the reasons why you're not putting all the shots in a 1" square at 25 meters.

    I think that someone earlier in the thread is mad because he hasn't been given the secret handshake yet.:neener:
     
  10. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    USA
    I will attend the event in Toccoa, GA if FRED would ship me that pristine birch E2 stock I ordered long ago :rolleyes:
     
  11. lipadj46

    lipadj46 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,884
    Ha! I just reread that. I did not know fred had trouble getting it up :neener:

    He just needs time to locate it in his warehouse as they are in a dusty corner somewhere next to the camo painted stocks and the tiger stripe, flamed and quilted stocks.
     
  12. MeanStreaker

    MeanStreaker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    The round count is because the course of fire spends a lot of time in each area of instruction to really try and perfect one specific lesson at a time.

    An instructor won't teach The Six Steps (Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, etc.), and sling usage, and all positions, and transitions, etc. and only then let you loose with firing. You will learn one specific lesson, and then shoot to practice. Repeat for each lesson.
     
  13. expvideo

    expvideo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,720
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    I went to a "mini appleseed" shoot in Monroe, WA. I learned a lot. It was worth my time, to say the least.
     
  14. intheburbs

    intheburbs Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    I'm definitely in, will bring a friend or two. We'll be hitting Sandusky one of the weekends this summer.
     
  15. Interceptor_Knight

    Interceptor_Knight Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Fred is the driving force behind the Appleseed program. Appleseed would not exist if it were not for Fred. If you take the time out of your busy schedule to attend a shoot, you will find that the Appleseed message is pretty simple and low keyed. No talk about UN convoys, etc. Just good marksmanship training and a history lesson regarding April 19th 1775.
    You may understand the mechanics, but can you demonstrate your understanding by putting all of your shots into 1" squares at 25M? Can you demonstrate proper use of a sling? How about the Sitting, Standing (off hand) and Prone positions? Can you shoot precisely in all of these positions?
    There is no way you can practice all 3 positions at 25M, 100M, 200M, 300M and 400M with just 10 rounds...;)
    Appleseed is a full weekend of marksmanship training and practice. By the time the weekend is over, you will have a better understanding of Natural
    point of Aim, Sight Alignment and Sight Picture, Adjusting your Aperture sights for range and windage, your trigger control should have improved and you should be more conscious of breath control among many other things. If you are truly already a master of marksmanship, then please still come as most people who attend are not and we can use the help!!
    Appleseed training materials are available on line at appleseedinfo.org/smf
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  16. Interceptor_Knight

    Interceptor_Knight Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I would like to give you a personal invitation to attend an Appleseed. Since you are in Wisconsin, and we will have 6 or more Appleseed shoot locations this year, it should be easy for you to find one close to home. We will even be at Lodi twice or more this year. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a line.
    First off, you need to separate the Fred from the articles in Shotgun News from the Appleseed program. You will hear NONE of that type of discourse as official instruction. The ONLY thing expressed other than Marksmanship is a history lession regarding April 19th 1775 and a reminder that a Rifleman gets involved in local, regional and national politics instead of sitting on the couch complaining about politics.
    You hit the nail on the head in your statements above. Appleseed teaches the forgotten skills of marksmanship... period. That is it in a nutshell. If every American would get off their dead butts and get to the range, they would appreciate the 2nd Amendment more. Fred is just having fun with some good natured ribbing with the cook vs Rifleman stuff. Anyone who takes it personal just has to show up and demonstrate their mastery of marksmanship. That is the intent.
    I have seen many High Power shooters show up and not be able to put all of their shots into the 1" squares at 25M right off of the bat. Most everyone who takes the time to come will learn something. For those who have heard it all before, it will jog your mind and be an excellent exercise to keep you sharp. I was a multiple Marksmanship Expert award holder in the years I served active duty also. I don't know what the Air Force program was like for you, but Marines take their marksmanship serious. I definitely enjoyed my first Appleseed and continue to enjoy being involved in the program. If you have nothing left to learn, please try to remember that we have a whole country full of individuals who desire some of this knowledge. Please come and share it. We need more experienced Riflemen on the firing line helping to teach those not so experienced.
    One of the problems I see with the current High Power program is the drop in attendance the past few years. Maybe this isn't the case all over, but it certainly is in the midwest. The Service Rifle clinics I have attended provided very little instruction for new shooters and most of the day was spent doing an actual shoot. Appleseed is 2 days of instruction and is very drill intensive. The actual AQTs take up a small portion of the weekend.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  17. cincinnatislim

    cincinnatislim Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Can you guys imagine an America where talking about guns and shooting doesn't put you "on the list" but, moreover, not talking about guns and shooting puts you on the list?

    There was a time in American history when men knew what they were about. If you were going to use the word "American" and "man" in a sentence together, there were some prerequisites. There was an internationally-known and well-established definition of what an American Man was. He was hard-working, he was tough. He was the kind of guy who could build a fire, change his own oil, and shoot a rifle.

    That guy could take care of his family, friends and neighbors. And when all of those guys stood together, there was no one else on earth who could take care of them!


    Are we still those men?

    Are the "Americans" around you men whom you'd gladly stand next to when it came time to defend our homeland or even your own neighborhood?

    An American Man is not only accountable for his own actions, but proud of them. He is a man who knows well what he is about.

    Too often today we allow our Liberties, Freedoms, and most importantly, our RIGHTS be eroded away through ignorance, apathy, and inactivity. Why? Because with those Rights comes the responsibility of being accountable for our actions.

    Unless we collectively stand together, unless we take pride in who we are and what we're about, we will lose the most important of our Rights and the rest will soon follow.

    Don't let that happen.

    Say whatever you want about Fred or Appleseed or anything at all about any shooting or 2A-related program. Say it because you can.

    For now.

    While we still have the Right to stand and be peacefully recognized, why not put your name "on the list" as well? Why not do it with pride? Why not stand up proclaiming, "I am an American, and I shoot firearms!"

    Why not do it?

    ... because they'll have to pry it from your cold dead fingers, right?

    Molon Labe.

    Molon Labe while you're sitting in a cold, wet trench with nothing to eat for days on end and so many sleepless nights you can't see straight.

    Molon Labe when your family, friends and neighbors are already gone.

    Molon Labe when America as we know it is no more....

    But why do that when you can sit inside McDonalds and Molon Labe from your laptop? Right now you can Molon Labe from your car, your T-shirt, your business cards. You can Molon Labe without ever firing a shot.

    Our forefathers and countless military members fought and died to give us the Right to peacefully change our future. If we don't stand together and Molon Labe as a group, we're going to lose our very right to whisper the words.

    That's where Appleseed comes in. Like it, hate it, go, don't go. You make your own choice. But, remember, you have the Right to make your own choice. How long will you still have that Right if you choose to Molon Labe on your own?
     
  18. funfaler

    funfaler Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    413
    Location:
    kentucky
    Interesting how the detractors above have not been to an Appleseed event, and chose to be critical of a single person in a program that has thousands involved, over 300 events nation wide and is making great progress at getting people out, active and energized......yep, our biggest threat is not the Brady Campaign, the Liberal Gun grabbers or even the UN, it is us....no wonder this nation "needs a little saving".

    The Appleseed Project is a great place to learn fundamental rifle marksmanship skills, that have been traditionally held (uniquely) by Americans. The Americans of yesteryear were were much more capable with their "primitive" rifles than 99.9% of Americans today are, with their much more modern rifles.

    If one would like to learn the skills of being able to accurately shoot a 20" target out to 500 yards, with just a standard rifle, iron sights, only a sling for support, standard ammo, from field positions, then an Appleseed is a great place to learn that. Your kids, wife/girlfriend, and any friends that are in the military, will shoot free.

    You will meet some great folks, and will be treated to some stories of the first Americans, the ones that sacrificed their lives, families, prosperity for you and your family to enjoy the Freedoms you have today.

    You will want to visit the web site to register for one of the 300 events nation wide, that are near you. And there you can find out what is recommended that you bring to best enjoy the experience above. With over 8000 people through the program in the last 3 years, and the nearly 10,000 expected to attend this year alone, it has proven to be a very fun and perhaps life changing event.

    If you so dearly love your couch, as to be willing to sit on it, watch your nation go the way of the do-do bird, then by all means, may your remote rest lightly on your lap. And while it is adorable that "americans" of that mind set would so easily leap at the chance to criticize those that actually feel that "freedom isn't free", that there is a debt of this generation to repay the previous ones for their gifts to us, and an obligation to the coming generations to preserve what we have been given, these same "americans" have proven themselves to be inconsequential to current events and as such, deserve about that much attention and respect.

    The Appleseed program is well proven to vastly improve ones skills with a rifles as well as reconnecting today's Americans to the first Americans, the ones that truly deserve our honor, respect and eternal gratitude. If you want to know about the program ask someone who has been, they will give you their experience, rather than uninformed, biased speculation.
     
  19. Lovesbeer99

    Lovesbeer99 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,413
    I don't wish to be critical of Appleseed. It actually sounds like fun for all skill levels, but I just keep hearing a tone that... 'you can't learn to shoot unless you've been to Appleseed. Appleseed invented sight alightment, focus, breath control and the use of a sling"

    If you've had no training Appleseed sounds like a great concept. Many people learned to shoot from other people who couldn't shoot so basic concepts were not taught. It can be a real eye opener to someone who thinks they can shoot, but can't. But remember those 6 points have been around long before Appleseed and are taught in books, Boyscouts, 4H, Army, National Match and many shooting clubs just to name a few. Many of us learned those concepts already. That being said, Appleseed can still be a lot of fun.

    Any yes I can consistantly put a round in a 1 inch circle at 25 meters. Every shot. I also practice dry firing weekly in sitting, prone and off hand. I can pass the Appleseed/Army qualifications in all 4 positions, but I don't like kneeling.
     
  20. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    USA

    Well said sir.
     
  21. Nickle

    Nickle Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Vermont
    Well, theree's LOTS of misinformation floating around here, mostly from people that have little to no clue of what they're talking about.

    Yup, all you detractors heard that right. If you haven't been to an Appleseed, how do you know what is taught at one?

    You don't, and can't know.

    Let me make some of it mor eclear for you.

    Project Appleseed is run by a Non-Profit (as in 501(c)3 Non-Profit) organization.

    Yes, Fred is the founder. There isn't any money that flows into his pocket, other than a reimbursement for SOME (not all) of his expenses. Same as what the Instructors see. We're all volunteers.

    Most of us running and teaching with the program aren't spouting off about the UN. Even Fred let that die YEARS ago. I'm a long term SGN reader, I would know. Sure, it USED to be in his columns, but hasn't for several years now. Does Fred still feel the same way about the UN? I don't know, why not ask him.

    I saw a few comments that are patently false. Is Appleseed the ONLY way to learn to shoot? We sure don't think so, and we're the ones running the program. We simply adapted a known marksmanship program, that has worked for years, and use it.

    The originator of that program? The United State Army.

    Now, the principles to shooting well are what they are. You can't change that, though you actually can ignore a few and get away with it, for a while. NPOA? I knew about NPOA LONG before Fred did, and long before this program existed. I knew about it in the 1960's, believe it or not, learned it from my father, a military Highpower and civilian BenchRest competitor.

    Those of you that have issues with Fred's (as in Fred's M14 Stocks), need to take those issues up with him. I suggest a phone call, and the number is 919-663-2027.

    For those of you are already expert shooters, I'll extend an invitation to come help us teach. I took that invitation a couple of years ago myself.

    Want to do about the same thing we do, on your own? We'll respect you for that, too.

    But, burying your heads in the sand, and saying there's nothing wrong in the country right now is denial of the truth. Unless you think the loss of your rights, including your 2A rights is acceptable. (If you think that way, you MIGHT be on the wrong forum.)
     
  22. Interceptor_Knight

    Interceptor_Knight Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Wisconsin

    You say that you do not wish to be critical but by making these claims you most certainly are being so. This thread began as a well intended informational piece on what was self described as a program that can teach a novice to shoot well. Individuals then decided to come crap on it.
    In response to your claims that Appleseed boasts to be the end all, you two have definitely heard nothing of the sort from this thread and apparently have not bothered to read the posts contained in this thread beginning with the very first one.
    If you had bothered to pay attention you would have noticed the multiple invitations to come pass your knowledge on to others along with the invitation for those who are not already experts to learn the basic skills to get them there or improve upon what they already know.
    There is no need to spin yarns. As good as you believe yourself to be, there is little chance that you are capable of placing every single shot you fire in the black of a sheet of 1" squares and therefore score perfectly on every AQT you may try. We have had High Master rated High Power shooters not be able to accomplish that.
    Even if we were to assume that you are capable of firing a perfect score at every High Power match you attend, that skill is absolutely useless if you are not passing your knowledge on to others. The difference between High Power and Appleseed is that High Power is a competition where the mission of Appleseed is to get everyone up to a very basic level of competency and then get those Riflemen to come back and teach others. In this capacity Appleseed is truly unique and there is no other program which is even close to reaching the number of people that Appleseed continues to reach each year. The growth of the program is noting less than phenomenal. The Appleseed mission is to introduce those who have not had the pleasure of serving in The Marine Corps or Army, etc and present them with the tools to become a Rifleman. For those who are already experienced it is an opportunity to improve upon what they already know. And then the ultimate goal as I mentioned multiple times is to pass their knowledge on to others.
    How about taking that chip off of your shoulder for a bit and come join us at an Appleseed to find out for yourself what we are about instead of being judgemental from behind a keyboard. There is a nation of novice shooters just waiting for someone knowledgeable and with the desire to help others to turn them into Riflemen. :)
    I sincerely invite you to come and attend an Appleseed so that you can meet us in person and see what we are all about. We need more unity in the shooting sports or we are destined to be buried by those who would wish to eliminate the Second Amendment. How does the quote go?? Either we hang together or we most certainly will hang seperately??
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  23. QuietEarp

    QuietEarp Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    Nevada
    Isn't it entirely sexist for women to shoot free?

    That being said the cost is quite reasonable and the concept does sound good.
     
  24. Nickle

    Nickle Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Vermont
    On the surface you would think it would be.

    In practice, it isn't.

    It simply gets the women to drag their men off from the nice comfy couch, and get him out shooting, WITH her.

    For families, it's a way of giving them a break, and when Mom comes to one of our events, before long, the youngsters come, too.

    And those youngsters are our future.
     
  25. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    USA


    Unity is great, but perhaps you missed this...

     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page