What is SHE doing WRONG?

[Werewolf]

My oldest daughter (28 and mother of two) is a hell of a shooter - WITH REVOLVERS.

With my 686 with Red Dot mounted or my Taurus Raging Bull .44 Mag with irons or my Ruger Vaqueros in 45 LC with their crappy irons she can drill a 3/4" dot or group within a half inch around it on a paper plate out to 15 yards all day long (not quite that good with the Rugers but that's the guns not her). Move out to 25 and her groups open up but not much (maybe 1 and a half inches or so -which means about 3" groups I guess). And! - we're not talking mouse phart loads here - the .357 and .44 are full power magnum loads. The 45 LC's are 250 gr LRNFP clocked at 980 FPS. It amazes me how good she is (in fact I find my self being embarassed because I'm no where near as good as she is and very, very proud of her at the same time).

BUT! And this is a really BIG but - a humongous but...

Put a semi-auto pistol in her hand and she can't even hit the paper plate from 7 yards. She consistently shoots about a foot low and 2 or 3 inches left. She's got a good stance and grip. Sometimes she uses a bit too much trigger finger but I don't think thats the source of her problem. We've gone over sight picture repeatedly. She thinks the guns (CZ-75's, Sig P220, S&W 1911 Target) are too light. They feel light to her but they're really not that light compared to the revolvers she is firing. With each of the autos I can drill the dot or get within an .5" or so (.75"+.5"=1.25" times 2 is 2.5" groups) all the way out to 15 yards and get 3 to 4 inch groups at 25 so it isn't the guns.

She broke her wrists in a bicycle accident about three years ago and they sometimes bother her but if that was the problem one would think it would rear its ugly head with the revolvers not the milder autos.

I am at a loss. Been trying for a year to figure out what is going on. She wants to know what she's doing wrong too.

Any ideas?

 

[Fire4Effect]

maybe she is used to the heavy "feel" of the revolvers and is over compensating for the light feel of the autos...

 

[zoom6zoom]

Have her try wearing some wrist weights, that may tell something; if so gradually reduce the weights until she gets "the feel".

 

[warriorsociologist]

Does she usually fire the revolvers single or double-action? If the latter, she may be used to a long trigger pull and flinching when the autos seem to fire "too soon"....or, the opposite could be happening (e.g., if she only fired revolvers single-action, then the extra take-up on a DA-type pistol may be throwing her off.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Put dummy bullets in and see if she flinches. It could be that while she understands how the autopistol works, that she just isn't used to them yet.

 

[antsi]

--------quote-----------
Put dummy bullets in and see if she flinches. It could be that while she understands how the autopistol works, that she just isn't used to them yet.
------------------------

I agree it just about has to be some kind of reacting or anticipating recoil demon. If she can shoot a revo, she has some sense of a sight picture. The only thing I know that will throw you that far off is flinching or fighting off the recoil. Try the dummy round drill and see if that helps diagnose the problem.

 

[nplant]

Finger-pad placement on the trigger might be pushing her off to the left, as well.

If she's left-handed, and has her finger on the trigger to the first knucle, she's likely pulling the gun to the left as she presses the trigger.

If she's right-handed, having just the tip of the finger on the trigger will tend to push the gun to the left as she presses.

As for the vertical spread, I'll have to agree with the other posts - do a few live rounds, then some dry presses. If you can, balance a quarter on the slide right above the muzzle (sometimes the front sight gets in the way, so be creative). If the quarter drops off after the trigger press, voila, you diagnosed her problem.

 

[RyanM]

Might be the wrists. Semi-automatics genuinely point lower than revolvers do. Try and see if she shoots a Glock, Luger, or other "high" pointing auto better.

 

[.41Dave]

+1 to what RyanM said. Also, for wheelgun shooters sometimes the recoil of a bottom feeder feels weird, what with that slide flip-flopping around exactly the way a revolver doesn't. This can lead to some flinching that isn't so much recoil induced as slide movement induced. It can be overcome with practice the same way you do with recoil induced flinching.

 

[CB1961]

Might be trigger control issue between the difference in a DA revolver and a lighter DA/SA semi-auto. I often shoot low to the left and I think it is about trigger control and flinching, pulling back on the gun. For me the long heavy pull on a DA revolver is more difficult, but if you are used to that and then go to the light pull of say a SA pistol that might be a case of just pulling back on the trigger hard and fast. Just a thought...I know I'm green with handguns.

 

[IAJack]

I grew up shooting revolvers. Never had my 1st auto until several years later. I had much the same problems. For me it was a recoil follow through issue. With the the revolvers especially the larger ones I was used to letting them recoil up and back -follow through is the best I can describe it. Now with an auto a similar thing happens, but it isn't nearly as pronounced and I try to let the slide do most of the work and take most of the recoil? The theories between the two are different enough that it caused me real problems until I figured it out. If I switch to a wheel gun then back to an auto I have to consciously remember what I an doing or I slip back into my bad form and have troubles again.

 

[AirForceShooter]

leave her alone!!
she likes wheelies so that's ok.

AFS

 

[ID_shooting]

It is the "flippiness" or so my wife says.

My wife is the same way, loves her Blackhawk and the new Service-Six even with 158gr .357 loads. She will sit and shoot all day, not too bad iether. Put a Baretta 92 and she can't stand it. She plain dislikes auto-loading handguns.

She thinks they recoil more and feel like they flip in her hand, at least that is what she describes.

 

[loose cannon]

+1 leave her alone;some of us werent made for semiautos.i seems to me she is a grade a natural with the wheel.if she needs more capacity......

buy her more revolvers.

 

[critter]

My daughter is much the same way. I got her an old south American trade in S&W model 10 in nickel a long time ago. She shoots it absolutely great! Semi's, however, are not for her. Her problem is that she is TOO GOOD at concentrating! She sees the slide moving and the brass ejecting and it bothers her no end!

Like my daughter, leave her alone with her wheelguns!

 

[CAS700850]

I've taught a few women in my shooting career, mainoy family members and significant others. Many of these women simply do not like the violent action of an auto. the slide racking back and forth, the brass ejecting out. Several expressed fear that the brass was going to hit/hurt them. Might be that way with your daughter. She may be hitting low because she's anticipating this, and pushing away/down as she's pulling the trigger, subconsciously protectig herself by creating as much distance between the gun and her face as she can. For the pure marksmanship of the issue, try some of the excellent suggestions above. For practical purposes, make sure she has a revolver to keep her safe and rest assured she can take care of herself. Maybe look into one of the 686+ or other "hi-cap" revolvers for added protection.

 

[HankB]

OK, she's hitting low and left . . . what do her group sizes look like?

Sneaking a dummy round into the magazine sounds like a good idea.

Try to have her "follow through" by not releasing the trigger after firing a shot until she's back on target - then have her s-l-o-w-l-y let up until she feels the "click" of the disconnector, after which she can start a new squeeze.