What is the point of having an ASP when non-LEO?

[Moparmike]

I dont get it. I want an ASP*, but if I carry it its considered a concealed weapon, which isnt covered by AR CCW laws. Hell, in TN you have to be licesnsed to carry it. Think about it: You have to be licensed to carry a collapsing stick. A -ING STICK FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! What is the point of having one if you cant freaking use it! Its a level of force below lethality, which a logical human being would think is a good thing because using deadly force is the final option.

So, as a civilian, why should I have one without the ability to use it? :banghead:



*The defensive baton, not the snake. I really cant think of a way to safely conceal a snake anyway, and its not guaranteed that it will bite the assailant.

**MODS: I am not sure where this goes, so please move to an appropriate forum. Maybe S&T?

 

[c_yeager]

I dont think it's an issue in my state. But, while i think a baton can be a valuable tool it certainly isnt valuable enough to risk a weapons charge over. If i were you id go for some pepper spray or something else as a LTL alternative.

Also, using a baton isnt as easy is it looks. If you choose to carry one i would highly recomend getting some kind of training with one. It doesnt require a LOT of training to use one right, really just a 4 hour class could teach you the fundamentals. But, those fundamentals arent necessarily common sense. Most folks dont know WHERE to hit a person to minimize their injury and maximize effectiveness. And, strangely enough most people (even cops) dont hit HARD enough with them. Used improperly you can do pretty nasty injuries to a person that you dont need to do. On the other side of the spectrum its also easy to THINK your using one effectively when really you arent even hurting the guy. Used properly they are a great tool. But there is a certain art to batons.

 

[BluesBear]

I have seen quite a few people arrested for using an ASP.

If you haven't practiced with it a lot it's very easily taken away.

Brandishing one doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.

Many courts see them only as an offensive weapon since they have no other readily apparant useage except as a weapon.

Any type of baton can lead to escalation of force.

In my case I am very lucky that the court DID condider a baton (not an ASP) to be a dealy weapon.

 

[Werewolf]

Uhhhh I hear what yer saying....

BUT!

Regarding an ASP and non-lethal force - maybe if you've been trained to use it that way - but I'm here to tell ya that with or without training in CQB that baton is just as lethal as a knife or gun. In the right hands one can do the so called one stop shot better and quicker than either and the guy or gal on the receiving end will not be waking up - ever (head hit not required).

I received minimal training on the things while in the navy because when deployed overseas we had to supply our own shore patrol when in port. Batons are very, very effective weapons that can easily kill.

That doesn't mean that I don't agree with you about carrying one but don't be fooled into thinking that just because it doesn't have a sharp edge or throw a metal projectile out one end that it isn't a deadly weapon.

 

[TechBrute]

I've always found the ASPs neat, and I've got one around here somewhere, but I have no desire to carry non-lethal weapons. Having said that, I have used a Surefire Flashlight as a non-lethal weapon a couple times. Once just using the light, and once smacking someone upside the head with it. In either situation, I would have been comfortable without it, though.

 

[NavajoNPaleFace]

The legality of the carry and use of batons probably vary by state as well as their use.

By that I mean it can still become a deadly weapon just as a baseball bat can be.

I'd suggest researching your state's laws on this one.

 

[DigMe]

*The defensive baton, not the snake. I really cant think of a way to safely conceal a snake anyway, and its not guaranteed that it will bite the assailant.

I carry mine in a spring-loaded peanut brittle can with some tactical beans inside so that it rattles as if it's real peanut brittle. Boy are those BGs gonna be in for a surprise when they steal my peanut brittle.

brad cook

 

[Baba Louie]

Learn to use it through a certified class. Carry it openly when jogging or biking for dog control.
If you're not LE, I have a hard time imagining when its use would be applicable to any given non-lethal situation since it IS a lethal weapon in trained hands. I'd rather carry something else (as would most here) that I can use without getting up close and personal, or letting my intended attacking assailant get that close.
Cops gotta wade into it. You and I "don't" gotta if we can find a way outta there.
I hear they're good for ruining a figure skater's Olympic trials if you're a dastardly ner-do-well type. (boo baba lou, boo... my bad)
But I'd think that for either biking or jogging when dogs might need some persuading, they'd be just the ticket. I'd still want to be certified just in case it's use was witnessed and litigation ensued, besides being another useful tool in your martial arts toolbox and learning the various target spots where the use is pain compliance or inhibiting limb movement (or worse).
Besides, they are better made than old car radio antennas aren't they?

And this should probably be moved to Non-Firearms or S&T

 

[Samurai Penguin]

Not an ASP, but...

My backup weapon in my car is an 18" ripping chisel. Basically, a crowbar without the hook. Holding it by the prying end gives you a handhold making it harder for the BG to relieve you of it.

Pros:

1: A legitimate multi-purpose tool, not a weapon in itself.

2: Easily slid up one's sleeve and deployed at a moment's notice.

3: Inexpensive.

4: Even a light swing will definitely get someone's attention.

5: Great in tight quarters where something on the order of a baseball bat would be too awkward.

Cons:

1: Not easy for the BG to take away...but not impossible.

2: Same thing brought up about the ASP...you can indeed accidentally kill someone or cripple them for life. Bad legal stuff ensues.

3: Hard to explain when away from your vehicle or house unless you're doing construction work or similar stuff.

4: Requires CQB...you'd best hope you're better than your opponent(s).

5: If BG is packing, violates First Rule of Gunfighting.

Just an idea. Discuss.

 

[Dorian]

I was trained on one in Police Academy and I think it would be a great alternative as a less than lethal weapon.

I see a lot of people talking about how they carry knives and such because they've been trained with them. I'd probably end up hurting myself with a knife if i did anything besides open a box or cut a sammich.

A baton, on the other hand, I have been trained with and know how to use as a less than lethal weapon.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Pepper spray is a better choice over an impact weapon, IMO.

If you feel you need an impact weapon, arm yourself with a fighting cane.

 

[fix]

My backup weapon in my car is an 18" ripping chisel.

I once watched a guy fight off three bad guys with a regular old handsaw. It was not a pretty sight. Never discount the lethality of blunt instruments or blades!!! I have to admit that while it was not very entertaining at the time, in retrospect it was pretty comical watching those guys run for their lives.

Tough to conceal, but not very threatening when being carried around.

 

[Model520Fan]

If it's illegal, none. Pepper spray is probably better, anyway. But don't forget that you are NOT an enforcer. I don't know you, and I don't know the cops in your area, but there is a very good chance that a pair of them are a lot better at non-lethal confrontations than you are. Your main defense in public is usually to back up until just before you get close enough to the wall that it might impede your draw. I fully sympathize with your desire to have non-lethal means available, but if the state forbids it, that's it. If that turns a perp into a dead perp instead of a perp with a broken knee, tough. He should have done his thing in another state.

 

[Josey]

ASP batons are offensive. You MAY have a duty to retreat in your state. Agressive offensive weapons use (ASP) would not fit into that duty to retreat. You basically elevate and escalate the use of force. You may even be considered the aggressor! You attacked the BG with a club didn't you? I can see a lawyer salivating over the disability and lost wages/pain and suffering tort now.

 

[Stand_Watie]

I'm pretty sure that carrying a 'club' is prohibited in Texas as well. Carrying a 'mag-lite' (purely for purposes of illumination of course) is not though.

 

[sm]

Mike,
I too am in AR, I am not LEO.
Though I have friends that are licensed to use the ASP, I have used one in simulations, and all that...
The guys that are licensed rarely use one. Me , I have no desire to go through all that for myself.

Why?

Because all of us prefer to use the brain and tennis shoes if need. We all have CCW and do so. Still the brain, situational awareness, and tennis shoe shuffle is preferred to the use of lethal force.

That ASP " might be percieved" as offensive.

Now the buddy of mine that could use a ASP prefers his simple old wood cane, yep he has training with that cane. He also uses a 3 or 4 cell Maglight in his "job". Surefires don't have the heft.

I keep a maglight handy, and I'm most always carrying a Ceramic mug, or glass container. I'm the guy going to class with the IBC Root Beer, Creme Soda, or Ice tea in glass . I refill with water while on campus...even in the IT labs everyone knows / allows me to "set these aside" as drinks are not allowed. One lady instructor with safety concerns now does the same...

I do not want to attract attention, I'm very low profile. I look like a late 40's guy that went back to school...which I am...which is what I want to appear to be.

It is amazing what an umbrella, IBC bottle of Root Beer, cane, or a backpack will do as a weapon. Any closer and I have a knife.

I watched the 65 y/o man with a cane put a 21 y/o trained with the ASP ---whupped him - repeatedly.

We have quite a folks using a cane on campus...instructors, students...not all are old, ot all are vets...heck I know a few that lose that need off campus.

I also know from personal experience what my IBC Root Beer Bottle will do , In an no CCW area I was confronted by 3 young men, Antenna from a truck makes a great weapon when you break the bottle, third guy figured getting cut was not worth it.

I used the brain, my dress shoes provided the traction to fight...used the tools at hand...and I cheat...I don't care as long as I survive. Hell at 48 I don't run as fast as I once did.

 

[Stand_Watie]

I keep a maglight handy,

There have been more than a couple leo's who have killed suspects with mag-lites. Enough that the liability got bad enough that some departments switched to plastic flashlights in the early 90's. They are definitely a formidable club if chosen to be used as such. If your life is in danger this choice is perfectly legal in every place in the US that I know of. Just remember that if questioned about carrying a mag-lite, it is for illumination, nothing more.

And it is really handy if you have a flat tire or a fender bender on a dark roadway.

To me, a 3 or 4 cell maglite in your hand, and a pistol in your back pocket is the best and safest way to inspect damage to bumpers and safely and politely exchange insurance information after a bumper cruncher late at night.

 

[El Tejon]

The point?

Holy Wannabes, Batman. An ASP is to fill up that space on one's Batbelt, Robin!

 

[sm]

And it is really handy if you have a flat tire or a fender bender on a dark roadway.

Yes these are my concerns. I realize newer , lighter weight, brighter lights are on the market, however I have had these lights for many many years. These are paid for and I have used for hunting ,roadside repairs and other emergency needs.

The mini 2 AA cell fits well in my backpack...sometimes leaving class at 10pm it is dark...this one is on a 'laynard'...easier to keep up with...

 

[NewShooter78]

As one who has used an ASP in a previous job, I wouldn't really suggest it as a CCW. There are really only a few places you can hit a person with an ASP. Otherwise you can kill them, and not even know it. It doesn't take a head shot to do it either. In fact the only time I used my ASP was to knock a bottle out of someone's hand after they refused to put it down in the middle of a bar fight. But they are pretty effective weapons if you know how to use them.

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I am not a LEO. I own an ASP that was gifted to me years ago by a friend who is a retired US Marshall who sells them in his shop. Personally, I've not had a lot of use for it, but it does seem to be a pretty cool toy... until the kids bent it cracking pecans.


A quick ASP story...

The Texas DPS includes the chrome shafted ASP as part of the partol officer's kit. Many years ago a DPS officer in the wilds of deep east Texas pulled over a car containing 5 non-English speaking persons. Officer had all 5 out of the car and was checking ID's and such when he felt a little 'crowded' by a couple of them. All 5 had admitted to drinking alcoholic beverages. After the 'crowders' failed to back up and remain at their car, the officer unlimbered his ASP as a visual aid. All 5 scattered into the woods surrounding the scene but were rounded up within a couple of hours with the assistance of other officers who were already enroute.

When they were interrogated separately as to why they scattered, each man exclaimed 'that was the biggest 'ing switchblade I'd ever seen and I didn't want to get cut!'

All a matter of cultural perception, I suppose.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[BerettaNut92]

I fixed a printer with one. HP LaserJet 5P, to be exact

No room on my 28" waist for it though. (and no the ASP wasn't mine, now was the printer)

 

[Stand_Watie]

I fixed a printer with one. HP LaserJet 5P, to be exact

I know a security guard (no, it wasn't me ) who "fixed" the rearview mirror in his patrol vehicle with one whilst practicing his "air drums" on one of those overnight shifts.

 

[NewShooter78]

I know a security guard (no, it wasn't me ) who "fixed" the rearview mirror in his patrol vehicle with one whilst practicing his "air drums" on one of those overnight shifts.

How'd he explain that one to his boss?

 

[sm]

How'd he explain that one to his boss?

He probably fared better than a 20 year old wannabe that whipped out a ASP off his "bat belt" to "impress" his older sister. Took out the driver's window on sister's BMW Z3!!

After the "Come to Jesus Meeting" with his older sister whom is smart, mature, level headed, a black belt and CCW 'er he had a few more "meetings" with the parents.

Decided the boy needed to mature before even thinking about getting a CCW himself. Monies for bling bling toys on his wish list went to fix sister's window.

Young man spent the summer working for his Uncle down on the farm, the Uncle that served in the Marines.

Young man still not mature enough for CCW. Sister did not rectally insert the ASP, though the thought crossed her mind, she didn't shoot him either [gotta be a statute for legal shooting of a dumbutt brother...gotta be...needs to be she remarked...still thinks parents brought home wrong boy from hospital] , The Marine Uncle said the boy can't even bale hay right, needs to 'join up'..."this is a more than a one Marine cure".