what is your defensive mindset?

[uspJ]

i've seen many people post here and on other forums that in a defensive situation they will use their weapon to create an avenue of escape and then disengage from the threat and get to safety. on the opposite side of the spectrum i've seen those who prefer to take the fight to the bg and end the threat.

personally i train for a run and gun approach going from cover to cover to put as much distance between me and the threat as possible while still firing accurately. so which do you guys train for?

 

[Wilburt]

If your not LEO, get distance as quick as you can. The only reason to stay and fight is a loved one, family, etc. LEO's are bound in some areas to help. It also depends in your LEO job. For instance Protective details evac the boss and retreat as well. Protective details are usually out numbered and out gunned if a well designed attack. Get the principal out, and run.

It really depends who you are and the circumstances. To many variables for any one correct answer. All that said, train to be able to stay as it may be your only option. Always look for a way out to survive.

 

[DogStar]

My #1 weapons in any dangerous situation are my eyes, my brain and my mouth. My mindset is that someone who's paying attention and follows their instincts can remove themselves from a potentially bad situation long before it turns bad for real. If I ever have to pull my firearm and fire it in anger (or even brandish it), I'll consider it a failure on my part.

That being said, if a situation were to ever turn violent I would get myself out of there in as expedient and as safe a manner possible.

 

[bikerdoc]

personally i train for a run and gun approach going from cover to cover to put as much distance between me and the threat as possible while still firing accurately. so which do you guys train for?
__________________

Im with you on that. Protect me and mine and get out of Dodge.


If I may add, We, (me and wife) being old and slow, practice a lot of situational awareness when we are out and about. It has become a fun mental exercise to identify potential trouble and avoid it.

And it may help avoid going to guns, which is the last thing we want to do.( She is a better shot than me and I am darn good.)

Im not talking paranoia, just serious what if talk, that we find helpful and fun. ( ya we are boring) It usually begins with one of us saying saying a clock position. 3 O clock. The other responds with an ID and a plan to remove ourselves from danger.

Underlying theme, avoid, remove, escape.

Hope this helps.

Did we ever use it? Only once, to avoid a fist fight we identified developing. When it devoloped we were long gone!

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'll concur with DogStar and bikerdoc. I spent 20 years living in bad parts of town and never had a problem with aggressors because I saw them coming from at least a block away and got myself out of the way before I even became a target.

I'd only use a firearm if I were cornered, and I'd only have myself to blame for getting cornered. It would mean I wasn't paying attention. Situational awareness is always the first and best line of defense.

 

[wishin]

Much would depend on the incident circumstances and its location. I would try to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible in the safest and surest manner. That may mean having to use my weapon the very moment the threat of serious harm is perceived by my brain. Lacking the ability to do just that, I'd find safe haven and be prepared for a defensive fight.

 

[Coyote3855]

Took some martial arts training with my son many years ago. The instructor had a story. White belt walks down the street, goes down an alley, gets jumped by goblins, ends up the hospital. Green belt walks down the street, goes down the alley, gets jumped by goblins, green belt and goblins end up in hospital. Black belt walks down the alley, doesn't go down the alley. The best way to win a fight is to not have it.

As Bikerdoc reports, my wife and I practice situational awareness, noting anything hinkey, locate exits/departure routes, discuss "what if" scenarios.

So yeah, disengage without using the weapon if possible. Avoid those places where stupid aggressive people gather - bars, stop & robs, street parties, etc.

 

[JEB]

keep a mindful eye on your surroundings and try to identify threats before they are threats to you. my first option is to avoid the fight if at all possible followd by de-escalating the situation verbally if possible. my sidearm are for when all other options have failed and i have no other option.

 

[possum]

In the military my mindest is to take the fight to the enemy any and everyway that i can.

In the context of ccw, My mindset is to stay alive for my wife and kids, to live another day. if i can get away from it i will. the legal,media, financial, and pottential emotional fight that comes after a shooting, could be as bad if not worse than the fight for your life.

 

[twisted1600]

Quote from LemmyCaution.......
"I'll concur with DogStar and bikerdoc. I spent 20 years living in bad parts of town and never had a problem with aggressors because I saw them coming from at least a block away and got myself out of the way before I even became a target.

I'd only use a firearm if I were cornered, and I'd only have myself to blame for getting cornered. It would mean I wasn't paying attention. Situational awareness is always the first and best line of defense."

I agree 100%


....and I start by not "looking" like a target!

 

[bikerdoc]

Twisted1600 said,

....and I start by not "looking" like a target!

Yes sir, So true that.

An often overlooked point. No matter your age or physical condition, If you project a hardened appearance and demeanor that says "I dont think so skippy" your chance are good you will fail what Mas Ayoub calls "the victim selection process."

 

[KingEdward]

1. do everything (and I do) possible to avoid confrontation / trouble

2. prepare (lift weights / range time / common sense / know the laws) to fight if necessary.

3. If forced to use CCW or firearm at home, try to achieve distance
and time (I am of the "hole up in safer room / area with shotgun / dial police crowd") But things tend to not flow with any certainty so expect
the unexpected.

4. I plan to end up alive or if not, assure that my family or loved one lives.

 

[Wilburt]

....and I start by not "looking" like a target!

Yep, Hard target vs soft target. The criminal will usually try to go for the target they think they can easily manipulate.

From a protection standpoint, usually an attack is after lots and lots of surveillance has been conducted. The goal is to seem hard enough they will pick a lesser target. A confrontation is the result of not properly planning and following good procedures.

Like many here have already stated: Awareness, knowing your surroundings and knowing whats behind you.

 

[uspJ]

i certainly agree with the statements about not looking like a target. most people tell me i look very unfriendly or scary, but once they get to know me they see i;m a big ol' softy. i know for a fact this has helped me out on more than one occasion. alot of times i've had some very dicey looking people apprach me (bums, drunks, etc.) see that i have a no nonsense look about myself and decide not to bother.

 

[Fred Fuller]

It's basically an amalgam of:

1) http://shop.paladin-press.com/product/772/Jeff_Cooper

2) http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2003/19Mar03.html

and

3) http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2006/02_StudyDay.htm

lpl

 

[Matthew Temkin]

The mindset lecture in this Cooper DVD is second to none.
It alone makes the asking price worthwhile.

http://www.paladin-press.com/product/94/Jeff_Cooper

 

[Cornbred]

I have a simple mindset that I will be the one going home at the end of it all. If that requires me to avoid/retreat, so be it. If that requires me to attack the threat, so be it as well. Every situation is going to require different reactions or combination of reactions.

Although they are very important; fear of lawsuits, media, emotional distress, financial burdens do not fit in this mindset.

I train constantly. This is on the range, in the ring, running through senarios in my head, in classrooms, in the gym, in the books (law and tactics) to name a few. Because of this, no matter what action I feel I have to take, I can do it with confidence that I am going to do the right thing and maximize the chances that I will be the one going home.

 

[scoutsabout]

Circumstances predicate the proper response.

Escape is always preferred to combat.

A preemtive strike is always preferred to the trading of blows.

When our responses are limited to combat, then it boils down to "kill or be killed" and a lack of resolve is an evil unto itself. Our safety, and the safety of our families, are the first priorities in life. Any mortal danger to the life and limb of ourselves or our families should be met with vigor and resolve that surpasses all pursuits. No duty supercedes this. Nothing is more sacred. Nothing is more important. Should some wayward ******bag come along and attempt to defile and ravage the beauty of our peaceful lives, I would hope that his justice came to him in an immediate violence of action unlike he had ever imagined -- one that he would not live long enough to never forget.

Under oath, we shall admit that our intent was to "stop" the attack.

In our hearts, we hope the villain dies before he hits the ground.

Live a good life. Make it home for dinner. Take care of your family. Any villain who thinks these things are parishable to the whims of his nefarious dealings would be well advised to consider the depth to which we love our families, the strength of our conviction, and the furious wrath with which we would strike out against him. Whether he has considered these things or not is impossible for us to know, and is not our first responsibility. We can only assume that the sanctity of our lives has become secondary to his selfish desires -- which is a blatant manifestation of evil.

You will know when the time comes. I am not talking about one of those gray area "standoffs" or an escalation of force scenario -- I am talking about the moment you actually confront deadly force. When that time comes, you should not hesitate. When you strike, you should hold nothing back. Once you cross that line, there's no going back -- give it everything you've got!

AAAAAAaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!

That is combat mindset.

Death before dishonor.

 

[shockwave]

the legal,media, financial, and pottential emotional fight that comes after a shooting, could be as bad if not worse than the fight for your life.

Very important point here raised by possum. This statement should be emblazoned over the "my gun jammed" thread. You must know your target. If the absolute worst comes to pass and you must discharge your firearm at another citizen, you will be held to a high standard in accounting for your actions.

My defensive mindset is both a combination of Cooper and Musashi. In a larger sense, all experts should read Sun Tzu.

But the challenge of having a "defensive mindset" is an awareness that shooting at a paper target at some chosen distance is a kinesthetic training exercise. You are grooving your muscles in preparation for the time the actions are needed. When fear and adrenaline are introduced, there will be shaking and panic, tunnel vision and time distortion. IPDA and IPSC are there to help you push through those barriers.

 

[al123]

I'm with the others here, outside the home, situation awareness is paramount. There are predators that roam, and there are predators that lie in wait. For the former you must watch their behavior and use your fear instinct (i.e. bad vibes). For the latter, you must be aware of the environment. Isolated parking lots at night in certain places, liquor stores (also at night) are magnets for the human trap door spider. Regardless, you must actively observe your surroundings. Flee and/or avoid as soon as you can.

In the home with family around, fleeing is a less likely option and IMO less safe than just staying put IF the intruder(s) have not made their way in. If they have entered, you must use your best judgment whether or not to flee, especially if you were caught unprepared. Important note: Try not to be unprepared.

Reinforce entry ways and windows beforehand. It doesn't have to look like Fort Knox, but there is a lot that can be done that can offer real protection. Hopefully this will buy time and discourage a would-be invader. Add lights and viewports to aid in quick identification. Anyone that enters your property you must ascertain who they are and their possible intentions as soon as possible.

There are too many possible scenarios to predetermine an exact course of action. If one encounters someone that violently smashes his way into your home, and that you or your family were in immediate danger, I'm sure people here believe in taking the steps to protect themselves and, if necessary, stop the threat.

 

[AOK]

A lot of great posts and agree with just about everything.

My bottom line is to win, period. What's a win for me? Same as everybody elses. Do whatever it takes to protect my family and/or myself.

As others have said, be aware of your surroundings and avoid bad situations whenever possible. When I say surroundings I think the people or dangerous areas I can see are just part of being aware of my surroundings. For example, if I'm in a store I am always aware of where the exits are. In emergency situations in unfamiliar places people tend to go to exit where they entered. If I hear gun shots somewhere in the store I am aware of the nearest exit possible so I can remove myself and/or my family from the situation ASAP.

On the other end of the spectrum, if I have no choice but to fight then I will do whatever it takes to stop the threat. I undertstand that there is a good chance I am going to get hurt badly but I don't care, I will be relentless.

 

[Jonah71]

I know this sounds totally crazy....and maybe I am, but for as long as I can remember I seem to have had some kind of built in early warning (DANGER AHEAD) radar that alerts me soon enough to get away NOW. Maybe it's nothing more than being aware of my surroundings and anticipating "possible" problems. I ignored this "feeling" once, and the results weren't good. Now....everyone can say, "You're crazy." But I'm also alive.

 

[DogStar]

You're not crazy, Jonah71. Those are called "instincts" and every human has them - they're what kept our species from being eaten by tigers and let us rise to the top of the food chain. Now we have the internet and firearms, and the tigers are still jumping on things from trees.

Unfortunately the modern human is told by society that it's o.k. to ignore your instincts, or even that it's encouraged so you don't seem rude or hurt someone's feelings. No thank you! Listen to that little voice buried deep in your monkey brain; he's going to save your life 100 times before your gun saves it once.

 

[David E]

personally i train for a run and gun approach going from cover to cover to put as much distance between me and the threat as possible while still firing accurately. so which do you guys train for?

How do you specifically train for a "run and gun" (I bet you mean "Gun and Run") approach?

I'd be interested in your practice drills.

 

[msb45]

I fall into the camp of fight your way out of the kill zone. Look at the Secret Service, they fire back, disengage and get out of dodge. That's how you keep the principle (you and yours) alive. If they feel the need with a full team, overwatch of snipers, and a Subsurban full of firepower I think me and 1-2 pistols should do the same.

One non-firing training I've heard of is while walking or waiting for look around for objects and ask yourself is that cover or concealment? It suppposedly helps train your eye for escape routes.