What load ot use for home defense?

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Sentry

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What load to use for home defense?

Never had a shotgun before, getting a Remington 870 Express Home Defense 18 inch Barrel here soon and have no idea what to use for a home defense load. I've hear between double ought and triple or 4 shot. I think I wanna go with 00 as I'm a fairly good shot and want to do some damage if need be. Who makes the best in a 3 inch chamber(mag or not I do not know) Are the target 100 roudn value packs good for just general playing at the range?
 
Ive got 00,000 and #4 I have the most of #4 around 200 rounds federal I got cheap as for what the best your going to hear a lot of diffrent opinions on that one, if you want to stick with one size buy a cheap box of 5 of each size and go do some fun range work to see what paterns best in your situation, also get a few slugs just to have, you never know what this world might hold someday. As for what size works best im my gun they all work fine for me.
 
What shot to use is mostly a function of where you live, and what you (Realistically) expect to be facing.

If you live in the country well away from neighbors, #00 would be good.
If you live in an apartment #4 would be a better choice, with some people telling you that even that is too large in a thin-walled apartment.

What you might face also dictates shot size. If you're looking at a car load of bad guys, #00. If you might face a home intruder at 20 feet, #4.

In any event, 3" shells are a case of too much for home defense. Too much recoil, and too much muzzle blast.

In any home defense situation, standard load shells are plenty effective, and are easier to handle in recoil.

The reason the shotgun is the premier HD gun, is SPEED.
The speed at which you can engage a target with a devastating load of shot.
Anything that slows you down reduces the gun's effectiveness, so any accessories you might add or the use of Magnum shells has to be subjected to a "cost/benefit" analysis.

Does the benefit outweigh the reduction in speed?

In the case of Magnum loads, you aren't getting any more "power" as in a Magnum rifle or pistol round, just more shot in the air.
This comes at the "cost" of increased recoil and muzzle blast, and a corresponding decrease of the speed at which you can operate the gun and engage targets.

In any case, Magnum shells are of little actual benefit in a true Home Defense gun situation. While it's nice to have a dense cloud of #00 Magnum buck flying at the bad guy, your neighbors, (and the local District Attorney) might have a few complaints about the load of shot blowing through their wall and hitting someone.

Best advice: Do a "real world" look at your living arrangements and threat situation, then pick the appropriate size shot in a standard load.

Stay away from the "blow the barn door down" loads, and the tricked out "Hollywood Special" guns.
 
Make sure you pattern whatever load you think you're going to use at a variety of distances before you buy a case of the stuff. You may be surprised at how much loads can vary from one gun to another.
 
Sentry, typing words like "Defense", "Loads", "Buck" and "Ammo" into the search feature will give you reams of input on the best ammo to use.

And to answer one question you had, the Value packs are great ammo for casual target use and fun. The Federal stuff is VERY good, the others not far behind.

HTH....
 
Ditto what 7.62 said......

Federal Low Recoil 00Buck is the way to go.

Plenty of power without being excessive. Minimal recoil makes for easier follow-up shots if necessary.


Also, being your first shotgun, I'd suggest sound tactical training as well.
That, and practice, practice, PRACTICE! Practice malfunctions, practice one-hand reloading and cycling, practice weakhand drills, practice doing it in low light, practice doing it when you're out of breath. A shotgun isn't a magic wand; it requires a skill level to MASTER that most people lack.

Anyone can shoot one, but it takes all the above to make it an extension of yourself. It is the most effective firearm if and when used correctly......

Be safe,
Mike
 
00 Buck or reduced-recoil/tactical 00 Buck if you're recoil-shy or terribly worried about over-penetration. I keep my tube stoked w/Federal Premium 00 Buck as it patterns better in my boomstick than anything else. While over-penetration is a consideration for me I place putting the BG down with a single shot as having priority. Even standard 00 Buck is less likely to over-penetrate than most stadard handgun rds.
Tomac
 
Federal's website lists the 00 and 4 RR buck at 1140fps. That's considerably slower than the regular loads at 1325. How does the almost 200fps loss equate into penetration and over penetration? How many layers of drywall would a RR load go through from say, 7 yards?
 
Unfortunately I loaned it out and it never came back, but I used to have a defense shotgun book that tested various shot sizes against a number of housing wall materials.

The tests indicated that about the only material that would stop a load of buckshot was cinder block, or brick.

Tests on interior furnishings like refrigerators and couches, also proved them NOT to be shot proof.

The author's conclusion was, in a HD situation, take cover as low as possible and just shoot right through the walls and furniture.


So, if your planing on finding a lead shot that won't penetrate dry wall or other interior walls, forget it.
Unless you've got cinder block or brick exterior walls, the shot will exit the house also.

This is an HD problem faced by users of all firearms. Rifle and pistol rounds are even worse.
All you can do is take care to select shot as suitable as possible, and watch your field of fire as much as you can.

Some people will recommend using a bird shot, since at the close ranges found inside the average dwelling, the shot doesn't have room to expand much past a near-solid column.

The only problem with that is, bird shot MAY not penetrate heavy winter clothing or leather coats.

The best available advice is to use the smallest size buckshot, THAT WILL DO THE JOB, and "reduced recoil" shells, if possible.
 
I am not sure what gauge gun you are using, but for home defense I think 20 gauge is a lot more realistic...a 2-3/4 in load of #3 buck is 20 pellets...and less chance of going thru your wall and into the neighbors living room! Don't overgun....it isnt necessary.
 
I am betting that some #4 pheasant load or #8 bird shot (field load), up close and personal, will penetrate more than winter clothing

It probably will, but it also probably won't penetrate the 12 inches you need to get a stop, unless you're planning on setting the BG's clothes on fire with the muzzle blast. I'm not planning on letting them get that close, hence the buckshot.
 
I would love to see some data on ballistic gelatin, or on real medical reports involving real shotgun shootings from realistic "inside the house" distances.

The absolute longest shot inside my house would be 37 feet.

I would still bet that just about any load you put in a 12 gauge used to a mximum of 37 feet, and used more like at 5 feet, would be plenty medicine on the vast majority of bad guy, humanoid type targets wearing realistic, typical clothing.

That being said, I do keep 00 buck in my social shotgun, because there is no telling who or what I might encounter, inside the house or out in the yard and wooded parts of the property. Everything from meth heads to angry black bears.......

I do know, for a fact, that even light field loads in #7 shot will absolutely penetrate thick rubber firemen's boots at distances of 10 feet or less. It leaves big, inch-wide holes as the shot column hasn't dispersed at 10 feet or less.

hillbilly
 
hillbilly said:

I do know, for a fact, that even light field loads in #7 shot will absolutely penetrate thick rubber firemen's boots at distances of 10 feet or less.

"Wait till you see the whites of their eyes, then SHOOT 'EM IN THE BOOTS!";) :D :D

Just kiddin' hillbilly........couldn't resist.


I agree wholeheartedly agree with you about the 00Buck for social purposes. I've seen personally what it can do to a 165lb cougar on the attack...... and I don't think there's gonna be anyone in my casa in the near future with that much determination, except me and my Benelli.

Cheers,
Mike
 
Does anyone use premium buckshot? The Premium buckshot from Federal is $4.00 and their Classic buckshot is $2.60. (Latest Natchez catalog). I wonder if there really is much difference.
 
I patterned my 870 a few months back out to 13 yards. I bought 12 types of buckshot in the loads I was interested and tried them all out. I live in a townhouse and do have concerns about overpenetration. I was hoping that my 870 would like one of the #4 loads but they spread out all over the place and hardly could be considered a pattern. The load my gun likes is the 2 3/4 remington reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 buckshot. Out to 14 yards it is a 4 inch hole. After I get off my active duty deployment, i plan on patterning the gun out to 25 and 50 yards. Now this is what my gun likes, not yours. My advice is buy as many types of buckshot as you can, print out the patterning 101 thread that Dave McCracken has been kind enough to assemble, and go have some fun at the range. Find the load your gun likes, and buy a lot of it.
 
Denton, I discovered that there is a significant improvement in pattern size when using the Federal Premium 00 Buck in my shotguns so that's what I use. The full length shot cup and harder/plated shot is supposed to be responsible for the better patterns. Here's a link to my initial test results: http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59046 . I can buy the Federal Premium at Wally World for $3.38/bx but recently Natchez was selling it for $1.89/bx (don't know if that price is still available).
At very close ranges (across a room, for example) I don't think it matters much but I like knowing I can trust my shotgun out to at least 25yds.
Tomac
 
"I am not sure what gauge gun you are using, but for home defense I think 20 gauge is a lot more realistic...a 2-3/4 in load of #3 buck is 20 pellets...and less chance of going thru your wall and into the neighbors living room! Don't overgun....it isnt necessary."

AZ Quailshooter, while I feel that 20 pellets of 20ga #3 Buck is probably adequate for HD and that overpenetration should be a consideration I believe it's difficult to determine at exactly what point one is "overgunned". Yeah, I think everyone can agree that .50 BMG is overgunned and .25 ACP is undergunned but considering how difficult it can be to down a determined human attacker (especially if you only have time to get off a single shot) I'd rather err on the side of "too much" than "too little". (Get me a "Phaser" set on "Stun" and I'll gladly use that instead!) ;)
Tomac
 
Anybody done any penetration tests on old plaster walls? I've spent too much time fixing mine to shoot holes in them.

My interior walls are about 3/4 of an inch of plaster on wood lathe on each side of the wall. There are 2x4s in there with crossbracing, honest 2x4s not the usual 1.5 x 3.5" ones, but you can't count on hitting those. This is the old plaster with horsehair in the scratch coat if that makes any difference. I'm just curious.

The exterior walls aren't a concern since they're 14 inches of solid brick with an inch of plaster on the inside.

John
 
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