What options do "minors" have for self defense?

Status
Not open for further replies.
In the context of federal law and firearms - a minor is a person under the age of 21.

In the context of alcohol possession - a minor is a person under the age of 21.

In the context of gambling - a minor is a person under the age of 21.

Thus the distinction in law - juvenile minors (those minors under age 18) and adult minors (minors aged 18-20).
Your conclusion (the "thus" statement) is completely unsupported by the previous statements. A non sequitur.

A brief google search reveals no hit for "adult minor" in the sense you mean. A search of the WA state statutes also reveals no such phrase.

So...you made it up?

(BTW: I appreciate the pepper spray info.)
 
I just got good at fighting, and being aware of the things around me when I was younger.

If you're gonna be young, you gotta be tough.
 
Eric M,

My sig says "Mindset, Skillset, Toolset," for a reason. Mindset is critical to self defense. One old martial artist says, "Attitude will get you through times of no skill, better than skill will get you through times of no attitude." But it takes having the right attitude, the proper mindset. It takes education and experience to develop a proper mindset. It takes work, and it takes time. But it can be done.

I'd suggest some reading, to begin with. Lots of people have learned lots of lessons over the years. It's easier to learn some of life's lessons from someone else's experience, rather than to try and get all that experience on your own. Quicker, too.

IMHO the basic primer on mindset is a classic - Jeff Cooper's little book, Principles of Personal Defense ( http://www.paladin-press.com/product/Principles_of_Personal_Defense/Other_Combat_Shooting ). While a lot of stuff out there that involves self defense tends to be gun-centric, many of the principles are useful even to people who for whatever reason don't have access to a firearm. Don't fall into the trap of focusing only on the gun. Guns are tools, and hardware comes last on the list. Software is more important.

Elevating your own awareness of indicators of potential criminal activity around you is probably the most important skill you can develop to help avoid becoming a victim. The classic approach to that is explained very well by Tom Givens, here - http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/4_States of Awareness.htm . If you'd rather see/hear it than read it, Tom has this lecture available on DVD and CD - see his site at http://www.rangemaster.com/ , click the Books and DVDs button, then go to the Order Form to see the list. And yes, that's the same Jeff Cooper who wrote Principles of Personal Defense.

One of the most useful sites on the web: http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/
There's a lot of material there to go over, if you try to cover it all. As a shortcut, just from the street crime approach, start with http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html . We say "avoid" - how do you know what to avoid? This segment will begin explaining the process of victimization as a predator uses it, and give you some warning signs you can begin looking out for.

Also, see http://defendyourself101.ca/articles/lies-bleed . I like Ted's approach, he pretty much has something for everyone, including young folks - as well as oldpharts like me who sometimes use a cane to get around.

One of the most important books on the subject, and IMHO critically important for young men, is Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence. There's a lot of important stuff in there some people never learn in a lifetime of dealing with other people. I strongly recommend it to you. There's a link to order the book from Amazon on Miller's site at http://chirontraining.com/Site/Home.html . If you like blogs, his can be seen at http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/ .

That should keep you gainfully employed for a while, and I hope it helps. Meanwhile, Stay Safe!

lpl
 
JVaughn -

I agree with your perspective, however not telling anyone only works to a point. Back before I knew I had 4th ammendment rights, I was thoroughly searched by school "authorities" including the police officer in connection with an event that I had absolutely nothing to do with. If I had been carrying something illegal or unapproved of at the time, I would have been suspected of a crime, suspended, etc...

But, since I only carried a "harmless" pencil and math compass, I appeared to be the "good little student" and I was simply sent on my way. There are also schools where students are basically searched upon entry. Knivesand pepper spray don't go there very well.

Honestly, I look forward to a more enlightened society in the future where people are allowed to defend their lives and property regardless of their age, race, sex, family ties, socioeconomic status, or sexual orientation. It really stinks when your life is threatened on an almost daily basis and the law basically views you as an incompetent semi-human slave to your parents. I thank God every morning that those days are over....
 
Last edited:
A common lock can be used as a one finger brass knuckle. No rules against having a lock at school is there?
 
Shawn, I believe you might be confusing age of majority (when one is legally responsible for ones self and actions, needing no guardian consent or permission; 18 in WA, for example) with age of license-which varies all over the map depending upon the permission- for example; 21 for alcohol, 16 for driving, 25 for some political offices, etc.

But IANAL, so take it with a grain. That's just how I understand the terminology, FWIW.
 
When I was in middle school & high school, I just carried a knife every day. Of course, that was the 90's, back before just saying knife in a school could get you expelled.

These days I'd most likely do what I do in any other NPE; either carry a knife anyway, and just not tell anyone, or carry a good pen instead. Keep one in your pocket, a couple in your book bag; hell, you could literally walk down the halls with one in your hand every day and not draw a second look.

Outside school, no question, carry a knife. Just remember (as was pointed out earlier) that a knife is always lethal force as far as the law is concerned. If you wouldn't be justified in using lethal force in a legit self defense shooting, then the knife should stay in your pocket.

R
 
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend- Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"-

Groucho Marx.

A good sized, hard cover book makes an excellent field expedient weapon.

DO be careful with the suggestions to use a Lock or Carbiner in the manner of brass knuckles- I had a friend break two of his own fingers like that.

Generally, a short stout stick is the most versatile weapon for close combat. There's a reason cops carry nightsticks. Something like a flashlight or a large wrench is handy, if you have a way to carry it.

a light loose fitting jacket, with a bit of weight in the pockets, can be flung over the head of an attacker if you have some practice taking it off quickly.
 
every single kid in the country should take RadKids. It is an amazing program that teaches how to avoid dangerous situations and escape them.

http://www.radkids.org/

After they are older, (14yrs) women should absolutely take the RAD women's course.

http://www.rad-systems.com/

Yes I am an instructor in both and teach aerosol defense.

I am a huge gun guy but this stuff is outstanding.
 
Last edited:
To the OP - Where are you located? What state/city? If you're in Boston or Los Angeles it's a different answer than if your in St. Louis or Bowling Green. One of my sons had a issue that was (surprisingly) solved by a pocket carried squirt-gun filled with lemon juice. You legal-eagles out there will undoubtedly tell me what a terribly irresponsible dad I was for allowing it. But my son never said a word about his concern or his solution until after it happened. Ten years after, I'm still vaguely proud of his problem-solving skills.
 
Last edited:
Good parenting comes first.

Most of the deadly encounters teens get into are of their own making. If they are violent, it is often because they made a choice to run with the wrong crowd, caved to peer pressure, or made some other mistake that cascaded. Parents need to be involved in their kids' lives and teach them how to make smart choices.

While some innocent kids do get caught up in situations, awareness and avoidance would probably prevent most of them.

I have a carry permit and carry daily. However, I think being aware of my surroundings and avoiding compromising situations goes farther in preventing harm to me than being armed.
 
I was one of those really unlucky ones, badly jumped by a group at age 9, too big and geeky, and bookish to not be a target later on, and never attacked alone. Back when video was a bulky and expensive affair.

My problems were exacerbated by my unwillingness to harm people 2/3rds my size. I was already larger than most adults. Didn't get my rectal-cranial inversion fixed until reading Machiavelli. Specifically the quote below.

Get some sort of martial training, specifically... be able to land on the ground, recover rapidly and safely, and learn to overcome that little part of you that might freeze up when it really matters.
 
In the context of federal law and firearms - a minor is a person under the age of 21.

In Washington state, students age 14, with parents consent, can possess and carry pepper spray at school. This is why I suggested the OP research the particular laws of his state.
ATF regulations define juveniles as prohibited persons with the younger than 18 years old qualifier.

Sale by FFLs may be restricted to 21 or older, but in many states that leaves other options open.

State law is very relevant:
An 18 year old in AZ/VT could buy a pistol through a FTF sale and carry it openly where legal for those 21 and older.




The references provided in post 28 should be a good starting point to learning the fundamentals beyond just techniques and tools.
 
Last edited:
when I was in school, fighting was the norm for me because I was fat.It usually only took a couple to get the message through to most of the other kids. For this to work you have to win though lol. A nice wood round pencil or a pen would be great for school. having a bigger friend to hang with is a good idea. That seemed to be my friends plan, hanging with me untill I didnt go to school one day and he got jumped, but that was quickly resolved the next day. outside of school it was either a knife or a nice thick walled pipe about an inch round I could easily hide down a pant leg. these days though some papper spray would probably be the route to go outside of school. just remember the number one rule to any fight, there is no such thing as a fair fight so do what you got to do to win. I once used a stool with the thick laminated seat on it to help drive my point across but the schools wern't as strict as they are now (10 years ago). running is a good option if you are up against a group, once running is no longer an option, then its time for the other alternitives.
 
Martial Arts, and hanging with a large group. If your outnumbered try to escape and get help (even if you know martial arts), avoid likely spots that you would get jumped or attacked, and look into buying mace. Also know your enviroment, if all else fails your enviroment can provide some of the best self defense tools to your disposal. Nothing says get <deleted> off me like a large stick or rock to the head.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One good thing about sticks is that they are such a common shape that they can be disguised as other common non-weapon items. One good option is a cheap two piece pool cue carried in a sheath. The butt half has a good heft and makes an excellent fighting stick. Of course there is no law against carrying a pool cue in your car (as long as you have both halves together). Sticks offer a tremendous advantage over knives because of the reach advantage and if you focus on the arms and legs they are non-lethal.

If you do have to use it in self-defense it will look good in court because it will appear spontaneous and without malice of forethought unlike using a billy club that has no purpose other than as a weapon. The main thing is whatever you choose PRACTICE with it relentlessly.
 
How old is "minor" reffering to? Because i'm having a hard time seeing how advice to a child on how to carry improvised weapons is "high road".

Kids get in trouble when they seek trouble. They don't tend to get mugged, being kids and all.
 
Hi there I'm 16, I learned real fast after I was jumped by 8 kids in the 7th grade to throw a good right hook. I suggest carrying a combination lock in your pocket to use brass knucke style. I've found that a medium sized "tactical flash light" can do some damage (broken nose and a fractured jaw). But always walk in front of cameras when ever possible.
 
Do minors not have a right to defend themselves?

Even school yard fights can have lifelong consequences. A kid in my town was beaten down by several older “children” and lost an eye due to being kicked in the face with a cowboy boot once he was down. A impact weapon could have prevented this.
 
How old is "minor" reffering to? Because i'm having a hard time seeing how advice to a child on how to carry improvised weapons is "high road".
I'm 16, nearly 17. Far from a child.
They don't tend to get mugged, being kids and all.
I have to say that is very naive thinking.
 
Eric M, unless you are part of certain demographics or do things to land yourself in trouble your chances of being mugged or seriously injured are quite slight. Thousands of teens get in school yard fights every day as they have since the beginning of civilization without anything more than superficial injury and hurt pride. However, if you bring a weapon to such a fight and seriously injure somebody, self defense or not, you will have far worse problems than taking a butt whipping. When teens fight cops generally couldn't care less if one side was just defending himself.
 
The thing is that no one is talking about a schoolyard fight. We're talking about any aggressor you may meet on the street. People looking to rob or assault someone may not go for an 8 year old. But the difference in appearance between a 20 year old and a 16-17 year old is very little and won't discourage an attacker one bit. Your logic dictates that you only need a defense of some sort if you are a thug. I would imagine not many here would agree with that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top