Crownvicman
Member
Wasn't the issue of secession pretty much settled in 1865?
What will be the straw that breaks the union's back?
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geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
By that token wasn't the issue of the right to keep and bear arms, and the 26 other clauses of the Bill of Rights settled in 1791?
jimpeel
Member
Silo shopping?
ATLAS E MISSILE SITE HOME CONVERSION FOR SALE
http://www.exchangers.com/ECHOUSE/Nebraska/index.shtml
Articles:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/02/silo.sweet.silo/index.html
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08032003/nation_w/80856.asp
ATLAS E MISSILE SITE HOME CONVERSION FOR SALE
http://www.exchangers.com/ECHOUSE/Nebraska/index.shtml
Articles:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/02/silo.sweet.silo/index.html
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08032003/nation_w/80856.asp
David Scott
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A bunch of the specific issues being discussed are manifestations of a single, larger issue. I think that the straw which will break the union's back is religion. We have a Constitution with provisions to keep Government out of religion, and a well-funded, vocal segment of the population that wants laws based on their religious beliefs. Those two things are not compatible.
TamThompson
Member
Taking the original question one step further, I'm guessing that if and when the union does break apart, one very valuable skillset to have will be the knowledge and equipment to do reloading and handloading. Particularly for those of us who will be too old (and, to some people's way of thinking, too female) to tote a rifle as a militia soldier.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Odds are that any sort of general collapse would be tied to costs of necessities being higher than what a very large segment of the population can afford. Food, shelter, utilities. I can't see this being likely anytime soon; it would take a return to the conditions of the Great Depression with its 25% unemployment.
I don't think most of the causes mentioned here outweigh the soporific effect of our various modern forms of the Roman Circus. We have it just really good in this country compared to many others, and what we see as "real bad", here, is a daily fact of life for many. We find we can actually live with whatever "real bad" comes along, and the revolutionary spirit reverts to somnolence--albeit with griping.
Art
I don't think most of the causes mentioned here outweigh the soporific effect of our various modern forms of the Roman Circus. We have it just really good in this country compared to many others, and what we see as "real bad", here, is a daily fact of life for many. We find we can actually live with whatever "real bad" comes along, and the revolutionary spirit reverts to somnolence--albeit with griping.
Art
Highland Ranger
Member
Not practical . . .
Another non-starter of an issue.
All states are too economically tied together for sucession to work.
This is just another SHTF scenario, and maybe something will make some state want out but that will just be the beginning of the end of life as we know it.
Gay marriage, sodomy laws, I think you'd have a hard time getting people to care.
We have bigger problems anyway - getting people to take responsibility for themselves is number 1.
Another non-starter of an issue.
All states are too economically tied together for sucession to work.
This is just another SHTF scenario, and maybe something will make some state want out but that will just be the beginning of the end of life as we know it.
Gay marriage, sodomy laws, I think you'd have a hard time getting people to care.
We have bigger problems anyway - getting people to take responsibility for themselves is number 1.
rising expectations
I think Art has it.
In my old school training, we learned that revolution happens when rising expectations of wealth or comfort or quality of life is met in reality by a SUDDEN and SIGNIFICANT downturn.
The downturn doesn't have to be to below some 'poverty line' or anything, just a real step back from what people EXPECT to be happening.
It also has to be a rapid decline. Too gradual and people, as Art mentioned, get used to it.
As pissed off, depressed, disenchanted, indignant, etc as we become; it all says to me that out expectations are actually going down not up.
We are, though angry about it, getting used to it.
If the NFA, GCA, and AWB were all passed in 1934 what do you think would have happened?
But it happened gradually: we got used to it.
And even though a few very principled folks, like alot of us here, would fight for a bit less; the general public will NOT until their expectations are dashed.
And a revolution needs some popular support.
Otherwise its called a coux.
So this may work out: the expectations of hunters, skeet shooters, etc is that the new AWB won't affect them. Their rifles and shotguns are safe forever. Let 'em think it. Then when they find out its time to turn them all in to Sen. Fineswine they will be really ticked off!
C-
I think Art has it.
In my old school training, we learned that revolution happens when rising expectations of wealth or comfort or quality of life is met in reality by a SUDDEN and SIGNIFICANT downturn.
The downturn doesn't have to be to below some 'poverty line' or anything, just a real step back from what people EXPECT to be happening.
It also has to be a rapid decline. Too gradual and people, as Art mentioned, get used to it.
As pissed off, depressed, disenchanted, indignant, etc as we become; it all says to me that out expectations are actually going down not up.
We are, though angry about it, getting used to it.
If the NFA, GCA, and AWB were all passed in 1934 what do you think would have happened?
But it happened gradually: we got used to it.
And even though a few very principled folks, like alot of us here, would fight for a bit less; the general public will NOT until their expectations are dashed.
And a revolution needs some popular support.
Otherwise its called a coux.
So this may work out: the expectations of hunters, skeet shooters, etc is that the new AWB won't affect them. Their rifles and shotguns are safe forever. Let 'em think it. Then when they find out its time to turn them all in to Sen. Fineswine they will be really ticked off!
C-
TamThompson
Member
I think Cpileri and Art have the gist of it. We've been hearing for years that the last half of the boomers and GenX are going to be the first generation in a very long time to be worse off than their parents. Given that we boomers were raised with SUCH high expectations, this will be a low blow. And, of course, the off-shoring/jobjacking of American jobs is making it much worse much sooner.
I think the mismatch between expectations and reality is the slow-burning log of the fire. The tinder will be Patriot Act 3 and other police-state measures (it's already happening.) The spark could be another terrorist attack (which fuels the tinder, and increases log-burning.)
I think the mismatch between expectations and reality is the slow-burning log of the fire. The tinder will be Patriot Act 3 and other police-state measures (it's already happening.) The spark could be another terrorist attack (which fuels the tinder, and increases log-burning.)
You haven't heard of the proposed Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as between a man and woman?
When proposed, that amendment will probably pass, thus saving states from tyrannous activist judges in other states.
It is very important to note that it would not bar states from recognizing gay "marriages" or civil unions or whatever they want to call them, if they so choose, but it would protect them from being forced to recognize it simply because some other state does.
Rather than going through the process of secession, I think that pretty much any state and its people would rather pass that amendment.
To answer the question, I'm not sure because I've never actually thought about it a whole lot, if at all. I've thought more about things like what it would take to actually start another revolution in this country and things like that, not about state seccession.
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