JohnBT
Member
It's sad to see so many with defeatist attitudes.
John
John
What will be the straw that breaks the union's back?
- Thread starter jimpeel
- Start date
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John, not sure you could call it that however the great need is to wake
the general public up and we need some strong leadership(I don't see that
in what we have now) and I also believe it is going to cause some tough times
(economy wise) before it gets better, I wish I could be more upbeat but
after 60+ years of changes I've seen ,it doesn't look good.
Balog
Member
When you are as far in debt as our country is: and you have such high interest payments to make: and you are reducing revenue by reaming businesses: it's only a matter of time before you either experience "Weimar Republic" style inflation brought about by printing massive quantities of fiat currency, or you default on the obligation. If the obligation is to foreign countries you might be able to get away with it. But when the obligations are Social Security (esp when it gets expanded to Mexico) and other welfare state projects, a default would get real ugly real fast.
And in the increasingly Balkanization seen in the US-Mexico border areas and you've got a recipe for disaster. The fact that the GDP* can't see it starting to happen speaks volumes about what's wrong with our country.
*Generally Dumb Public
And in the increasingly Balkanization seen in the US-Mexico border areas and you've got a recipe for disaster. The fact that the GDP* can't see it starting to happen speaks volumes about what's wrong with our country.
*Generally Dumb Public
TamThompson
Member
1. Even if a state such as Hawaii secedes, that doesn't mean they have to wall themselves off. Independent countries do trade with other countries. I'm sure they'd make some sort of provision for the tourist trade (and the importation of toilet paper, etc.)
2. From what I've heard, the biggest factor responsible for the fact that most families need two adult wage-earners was the Cold War. We had to win the Cold War, and that meant spending tons of money on defense, which meant tons of taxes. Of course, another factor in the two-wage-earner thing is the massive American advertising industry: they've made us WANT all the shiny baubles and accouterments of higher lifestyles. (Yes, I know--there are some of you who get by just fine on one income. I'm not talking about you.)
3. Remember what Thomas Chittum said in 'Civil War 2' about key news media pictures that you may see in the future that will tell you we are well along the way to CW2. These pictures are the same ones that have been taken in other countries, and include a child foraging for food in a trash heap, and another picture of a burned-out tank, possible with dead crew, with jubilant civilians jumping on it waving a new flag.
4. Given the nature of sheeple and the huge emphasis given to money in America, I'm leaning towards it being an economic collapse of the dollar, IF the downside of peak oil doesn't hit us first. (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.com)
People won't revolt over events that most of us perceive as trivial. People WILL revolt when they start losing their homes en masse and can't afford food for themselves and their children.
I don't see being realistic as 'having a defeatist attitude.' I, my family, and many of our fellow Americans, WILL survive. That ain't defeatist.
2. From what I've heard, the biggest factor responsible for the fact that most families need two adult wage-earners was the Cold War. We had to win the Cold War, and that meant spending tons of money on defense, which meant tons of taxes. Of course, another factor in the two-wage-earner thing is the massive American advertising industry: they've made us WANT all the shiny baubles and accouterments of higher lifestyles. (Yes, I know--there are some of you who get by just fine on one income. I'm not talking about you.)
3. Remember what Thomas Chittum said in 'Civil War 2' about key news media pictures that you may see in the future that will tell you we are well along the way to CW2. These pictures are the same ones that have been taken in other countries, and include a child foraging for food in a trash heap, and another picture of a burned-out tank, possible with dead crew, with jubilant civilians jumping on it waving a new flag.
4. Given the nature of sheeple and the huge emphasis given to money in America, I'm leaning towards it being an economic collapse of the dollar, IF the downside of peak oil doesn't hit us first. (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.com)
People won't revolt over events that most of us perceive as trivial. People WILL revolt when they start losing their homes en masse and can't afford food for themselves and their children.
I don't see being realistic as 'having a defeatist attitude.' I, my family, and many of our fellow Americans, WILL survive. That ain't defeatist.
longeyes
member
Irresponsible government spending.
Transfer of too many good jobs abroad.
Illegal immigration and/or the refusal to control our borders.
Transfer of too many good jobs abroad.
Illegal immigration and/or the refusal to control our borders.
JohnBT
Member
Let's see...I finished grad school in 1973 - anybody remember the gas rationing? Odd-even days for buying gas according to your license number? Remember that economy?
In January of 1980 I bought my first house. Freaking 12.75% mortgage and I felt good because the rates zoomed to nearly 20%.
My grandparents had it pretty hard at the turn of the 20th century up until after WWI.
My parents grew up during the Depression and that was followed by WWII rationing that was hard on folks too - okay, my dad missed the rationing because he was on an extended SW Pacific tour for over 4 years, but he still says the New Zealand mutton is the worst food he's ever had and that includes 10 days in the Phillipines existing on frozen corn and cold Coca-Cola. Then the Navy supplied them(Air Force) with steak three times a day and made them a different kind of ill from the rich food.
Anyway, I still say we're getting along pretty well these days. The economy runs in cycles and that spending orgy of the '90s ain't the norm.
John
In January of 1980 I bought my first house. Freaking 12.75% mortgage and I felt good because the rates zoomed to nearly 20%.
My grandparents had it pretty hard at the turn of the 20th century up until after WWI.
My parents grew up during the Depression and that was followed by WWII rationing that was hard on folks too - okay, my dad missed the rationing because he was on an extended SW Pacific tour for over 4 years, but he still says the New Zealand mutton is the worst food he's ever had and that includes 10 days in the Phillipines existing on frozen corn and cold Coca-Cola. Then the Navy supplied them(Air Force) with steak three times a day and made them a different kind of ill from the rich food.
Anyway, I still say we're getting along pretty well these days. The economy runs in cycles and that spending orgy of the '90s ain't the norm.
John
Samurai, the national debt is not $7 trillion. That is what is being financed now. The total national debt is estimated at $30 trillion. The extra $23 trillion is all those Federal IOUs that will be coming due. $30 trillion represents about three years of US Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and an average of $100,000.00 of public debt for each citizen of the USA.
The $30 trillion debt number comes from the Comptroller of the United States.
The $30 trillion debt number comes from the Comptroller of the United States.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
The US has somewhere around three times as much of an energy reserve locked up in accessible coal than Saudi Arabia has in oil. Similarly, the US has equivalent amounts of natural gas and oil shale. And the US has nuclear power as well.
Each and every time a peak of reserves for oil is forcast new discoveries push the limit upwards, and have been doing so for long while.
There may be many things that could arise in the future to break up the USA, an energy shortage is very unlikely however.
-edited for spellin'- CHL22:36-
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QuarterBoreGunner
Member
I really have nothing to add to this discussion that hasn't already been said, but I have to say that after reading all four pages, I am once again amazed at the level of civility being displayed here.
Good on you THR members.
I'm almost tempted to start another thread:
"If THR members founded their own country, what sort of government would we have?"
Oh and madmike? I, like SamuraiPenguin, have borrowed your most excellent verbage. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Good on you THR members.
I'm almost tempted to start another thread:
"If THR members founded their own country, what sort of government would we have?"
Oh and madmike? I, like SamuraiPenguin, have borrowed your most excellent verbage. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Sean Cloherty
Member
At the risk of sounding naive, how is this possibly a 14th Amendment / Equal protection issue?
Which class of people is being denied a right?
If you claim that marriage is a right, then everyone of every color, creed, race, class, political or religious denomination has the same right, the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.
No one is excluded, right?
Gay or straight or bi, or pan, or asexual, to be married, you don't have to love the person, their wealth or poverty, how they looks, what they do for a living, whether they put the toilet seat down. You needn't have sex with them, you don't need to reproduce, you don't even need to agree on anything. They only requirement is that the person is not the same sex as you.
I am sure that plenty of gay men marry to have the family they want, but have affairs to satisfy other needs, just like straight folks do.
Which class of people is being denied a right?
If you claim that marriage is a right, then everyone of every color, creed, race, class, political or religious denomination has the same right, the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.
No one is excluded, right?
Gay or straight or bi, or pan, or asexual, to be married, you don't have to love the person, their wealth or poverty, how they looks, what they do for a living, whether they put the toilet seat down. You needn't have sex with them, you don't need to reproduce, you don't even need to agree on anything. They only requirement is that the person is not the same sex as you.
I am sure that plenty of gay men marry to have the family they want, but have affairs to satisfy other needs, just like straight folks do.
Jay Kominek
Member
If you were in the minority, would you appreciate being told you could marry anyone so long as they were of the same sex as you?
No, probably not.
As cute and witty as it is to say that gay people have the right to marry whoever they want so long as they're of the opposite sex, it makes no sense. Rights simply don't have exceptions to them.
(Sort of like how the right to keep and bear arms isn't "the right to keep and bear arms unless it is a shotgun in which case it has to be at least 18 inches long")
When you complain about others who want to strip you of your rights, you shouldn't be simultaneously trying to strip them of their rights. Thats the problem with America, everyone is only interested in their happy little subset of their rights, and will gleefully strip everyone else of the rights they don't personally feel necessary. All the government sees is citizens willing to deny each other their rights, and so it happily complies.
Things aren't going to get better until everyone stops trying to use the government as a tool to enforce their own social views, regardless of how widespread those views may be.
Jay Kominek
Member
You'll note that nothing I said was in disagreement with that statement.
ksnecktieman
Member
I see no reason to be concerned if they marry. One thing that we can be sure of is that they will not contaminate the gene pool with offspring. It is their choice, their life. The freedoms you demand for your self are not as important as the freedoms you offer to others. Freedom is a two way street, and tolerance is required for us all to be free.
Master Blaster
Member
Well then LIFE SUCKS and THEN YOU DIE
In 1970 they were predicting that by 2002 we would have used up all of the oil in the World based upon our consumption then projected into the future, with the attendant expected increases. They also predicted that we would be unable to breathe the air or drink the water because of all the pollution, and that arable farmland, and fresh water would be depleted by the demand that the ever growing population was putting on natural resources. This did not happen, why not? becuse while all the whinning leftist bliss ninnies were crying about the impending doom ahead, the NERDS were inventing better computers, in part because of that wasteful program to pointlessly send people to the moon while children went hungry in the USA. The space program brought us composite materials, integrated circuits, and computer programming. Computers made our machines use less oil and advanced materials applications like the catalytic converter prevented us from choking on our own excrement.
They were also predicting that the global nuclear war would wipe out mankind by now.
So we are all already DEAD.
What happened??? The human race is an inventive and versitile lot thats why none of those gloom and doom predictions have come to pass.
The US will be on top In the future and we still are now.
The next revolution in technology will happen here because we are the only country free enough and with enough imagination to break the existing paradigms.
We will invent new cleaner metholds of producing energy that do not rely on nuclear power or fossil fuels. We will create the next generation of biological organic computers. The world will worship at our feet. Greed and our own inventiveness in fulfilling our material wants will see us through.
Thats my opinion and all of you who disagreee and think we are doomed to failure:
:banghead:
As for what to tell your children to study, it seems we all need indoor plumbing and electrical wiring, as well as homes in which to live, so if they are not rocket scientists, they can still make a good living installing toilets.
The Chinese will all want indoor plumbing, and Britney Spears posters. We have the best toilets and the best looking Naked women in the world. Best of all we have Americans.
Anyone who has called the plumber or the electrician lately knows I am right.
In 1970 they were predicting that by 2002 we would have used up all of the oil in the World based upon our consumption then projected into the future, with the attendant expected increases. They also predicted that we would be unable to breathe the air or drink the water because of all the pollution, and that arable farmland, and fresh water would be depleted by the demand that the ever growing population was putting on natural resources. This did not happen, why not? becuse while all the whinning leftist bliss ninnies were crying about the impending doom ahead, the NERDS were inventing better computers, in part because of that wasteful program to pointlessly send people to the moon while children went hungry in the USA. The space program brought us composite materials, integrated circuits, and computer programming. Computers made our machines use less oil and advanced materials applications like the catalytic converter prevented us from choking on our own excrement.
They were also predicting that the global nuclear war would wipe out mankind by now.
So we are all already DEAD.
What happened??? The human race is an inventive and versitile lot thats why none of those gloom and doom predictions have come to pass.
The US will be on top In the future and we still are now.
The next revolution in technology will happen here because we are the only country free enough and with enough imagination to break the existing paradigms.
We will invent new cleaner metholds of producing energy that do not rely on nuclear power or fossil fuels. We will create the next generation of biological organic computers. The world will worship at our feet. Greed and our own inventiveness in fulfilling our material wants will see us through.
Thats my opinion and all of you who disagreee and think we are doomed to failure:
:banghead:As for what to tell your children to study, it seems we all need indoor plumbing and electrical wiring, as well as homes in which to live, so if they are not rocket scientists, they can still make a good living installing toilets.
The Chinese will all want indoor plumbing, and Britney Spears posters. We have the best toilets and the best looking Naked women in the world. Best of all we have Americans.
Anyone who has called the plumber or the electrician lately knows I am right.
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Gordon Fink
Member
Oh, I can see it all right, but it seems to get more remote every day.
~G. Fink
longeyes
member
"The next revolution in technology will happen here because we are the only country free enough and with enough imagination to break the existing paradigms.
We will invent new cleaner metholds of producing energy that do not rely on nuclear power or fossil fuels. We will create the next generation of biological organic computers. The world will worship at our feet. Greed and our own inventiveness in fulfilling our material wants will see us through."
Optimism is a good thing. Assuming good times must continue because we are divinely chosen is another. You're right that we have the resources, all kinds, to advance and prevail. But what many of us on this forum are worried about is that the underlying radical conditions for the continuation of this nation's prosperity have been sorely imperiled. "This time is different" has been proven naive in the world of investment. "This time is the same," meaning we'll muddle on as we always have, is also naive. We need to do some hard analytical work, perhaps 12-Step style, and ask ourselves if America still has the same wherewithal it had a few decades ago. We cannot afford to assume anything. I say look to our schools and the media and the legal process and ask yourself if you aren't concerned about the values being transmitted. Sure, we have MIT and CalTech but how many people working there are foreigners who won't be staying?
We will invent new cleaner metholds of producing energy that do not rely on nuclear power or fossil fuels. We will create the next generation of biological organic computers. The world will worship at our feet. Greed and our own inventiveness in fulfilling our material wants will see us through."
Optimism is a good thing. Assuming good times must continue because we are divinely chosen is another. You're right that we have the resources, all kinds, to advance and prevail. But what many of us on this forum are worried about is that the underlying radical conditions for the continuation of this nation's prosperity have been sorely imperiled. "This time is different" has been proven naive in the world of investment. "This time is the same," meaning we'll muddle on as we always have, is also naive. We need to do some hard analytical work, perhaps 12-Step style, and ask ourselves if America still has the same wherewithal it had a few decades ago. We cannot afford to assume anything. I say look to our schools and the media and the legal process and ask yourself if you aren't concerned about the values being transmitted. Sure, we have MIT and CalTech but how many people working there are foreigners who won't be staying?
Samurai Penguin
Member
moa:
Holy Screaming !! That's what I get for taking a news blurb at face value.
To Do List:
1: Acquire Land comma Easily Defensible comma Self-Sustainable.
2: Build House comma Monolithic Dome comma Indestructible.
3: Obtain Food comma Non-Perishable.
4: Obtain Guns comma lots.
5: Obtain Ammo comma butt-load.
6: Obtain more tinfoil for beanie.
ASAP.
Geeze, it's worse than I thought! But I'll be an optimist and figure we've still got one more boom coming...I hope...
Holy Screaming
!! That's what I get for taking a news blurb at face value. To Do List:
1: Acquire Land comma Easily Defensible comma Self-Sustainable.
2: Build House comma Monolithic Dome comma Indestructible.
3: Obtain Food comma Non-Perishable.
4: Obtain Guns comma lots.
5: Obtain Ammo comma butt-load.
6: Obtain more tinfoil for beanie.
ASAP.
Geeze, it's worse than I thought! But I'll be an optimist and figure we've still got one more boom coming...I hope...
Michigander
Member
"Soylent Green . . . it's people!!!"
HBK
member
If we do have one more boom in us, how long do you think it will last?
jimpeel
Member
The next boom will last exactly until the next bust.
Ya heard it here first.
Ya heard it here first.
Moparmike
Member
Samurai Penguin
Member
I've seen that...most of their stuff seems way pricey, though. Nuclear exchange, I'm not too worried about. Proabably, one of these will suffice.
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