What would be YOUR militia rifle...

[Drgong]

Being Hypothetical here, and figured it would be a fun conversation.

Lets say the government decided that to support the citizens as a militia, and decided to hand out a "standard militia rifle" to support the militia and to improve marksmanship. (I know, fat chance of this happening) Think of the Swiss and there use of a militia system or a vastly expanded civilian marksmanship program.

What would be YOUR design for a militia rifle?

Things you need to look at is cost, easily maintained, and that the users of this rifle would hopefully be able to covert there experience into what the government uses.

what is YOUR concept?

and this is mine...

a AR-18 style rifle (stamped steel construction with more traditional piston system) 20 inch barrel with folding stock. It would use 5.56x45mm NATO and standard ar-15 magazines. depending on which system is deemed less expensive and more reliable, would be autoloading with perhaps the ablity to shoot a three round burst. It would have a flat top to allow easy add ons.

 

[SFvet]

Well I dont think I have a choice lol.

 

[W.E.G.]

Muh-LIHHH-shuh?!!!

 

[KiltedClaymore]

AK-74

or a AR-180

 

[shevrock]

An AR is kind of expensive to be "handed out". It would have to be something cheaper. I would say an AK, but that would throw off the "American looks" so to speak. An M1 Garand maybe? If not maybe a .30 Carbine, or Springfield bolt rifle from WW1.

 

[yenchisks]

It would have to be something cheaper.....marlin m60

 

[Click Click Boom]

Galil.

 

[shevrock]

maybe an M-14? oh i wish.

 

[Limeyfellow]

I guess it is hard to beat the AR15, but with the way people are, you probably need something more idiot proof than even this. I'm not sure of an American style rifle that would be cheap enough, but something like the SKS or AK47 would work. It has to be cheap, reliable, quick to manufacture and useable by people of various sizes and fitnesses.

Of course the biggest problem would be dragging people out to work as teams, with tactics, training and learning skills rather than firearms choice and would take decades to implement.

 

[Bartkowski]

Why wouldn't an M1 Garand be expensive to hand out? And other than price, they are heavy, long, and not everyone would like the recoil.

I see no problem with an AR style rifle for this situation, and don't think that it needs a piston either.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

m-2 carbine? anyone?

 

[Wopasaurus]

maybe an M-14? oh i wish.

I was thinking the same thing. Well... actually a Springfield Socom... But still.

 

[H2O MAN]

Quote:
maybe an M-14? oh i wish.

Wopasaurus

I was thinking the same thing. Well... actually a Springfield Socom... But still.

I like the way you guys think

 

[Colt46]

Sticking to the AR platform

How about a 6.5 grendel? Better range and better performance.

 

[ochmude]

Perhaps rounding up the massive quantity of M16A2's the military has amassed and pass them on to civilians. More than accurate enough for militia use, stupid-simple operation and maintenance (tough to get inspection spotless, but simple to clean well enough to make it go bang), and able to take a ton of abuse. Besides, it sure beats scrapping hundreds of thousands of functioning rifles as the military transitions to newer weapon systems.

 

[dstorm1911]

it would be a 5.56x45 caliber as the government would want to maintain logistics support with same caliber as standing army, stamped sheet metal design most likely an AK pattern with injection molded synthetic furniture, simply due to simplicity of operation, maintnence and manufacture, none of the garands, m-14s SKSs or any other milled gun would even be considered as the cost of labor, materials are too high as well as time to manufacture...... the ONLY reason the SKS is cheap is that its a surplus rifle built in countries utilizing communist slave labor a design now far obsolete so value is basically anything above scrap steel value to the countries that produced them....... Garand or M-14 too expensive to produce and to complex for untrained civilian issue AK semi auto pattern...... extremely basic to manufacture, anyone can be trained to detail strip in a matter of minutes, 7 components to the FCG (2 Axis pins hammer, disconector, trigger, hammer/trigger spring and disconector spring) 7 components to the bolt (bolt body, extractor, extractor spring, firing pin, 2 retaining pins) gas system 2 parts gas tube and fixed gas piston/bolt carrier the only tools needed to completelly detail strip are provided with the metal tube type cleaning kit and only needed to remove the buttstock and the two pins in the bolt doesn't get any simpler or cheaper to produce and has proven itself in the absolute worst environments in the world in the hands of children literally.....

 

[RobTzu]

A FAL. Rugged, easy to mantain, and the price would be brought down by mass production. And I own one.

 

[paintballdude902]

garand

 

[shevrock]

I think this thread will get ore use if Obama is elected [no racism intended]. A .30 carbine would be good.

 

[goon]

If I were starting from the ground up I think I'd also go with something made of stamped steel and using an AR-18 style operation and also using AR magazines.
It would need to be able to be built quick and cheap. Because of the machining involved with using large blocks of steel to make recievers, I'd leave the FAL's, Garands, and M1A's for the civilian market.
I'd make sure it had durable iron sights, something along the lines of a FAL para rear design set up with 200 and 350 yard aperatures and using a regular post style front.
I would forego the AR-15 A2's complicated windage adjustments because they're generally not necessary. The sights would basically be zeroed and left alone. I figure if you're handing out rifles you probably aren't going to be handing out optics with them so the sights would be meant to be a primary and not a BUIS.
It would be railed on the top to allow optics to be easily mounted.
I'd also design it to use M-16 parts anywhere possible. I can't see any reason that things like flash suppressors, pins, fire control parts, furniture, and stuff like that couldn't be used.

 

[Nolo]

I have to say any rifle that would be handed out to EVERY single adult citizen in this country would have to be easily mass-produced.
It should use ammo already in circulation...
And that's about it.
Yep, looks like we're all getting STENs.

If they actually wanted to spend money on it? Uhhh... I guess the Masada/ACR would be a good choice, but then again, I think the government would just go for another AR variant.
I must say, though, I'm pretty endeared to the ACR's design.
We could just use this, though:

 

[jws527]

When weighing all the considerations (combat effectiveness, cost, complexity of manufacture, ease of use, etc), a Kalashnikov pattern rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO would win hands-down. They're reliable, cheap, very easy to use and yet still effective. Of course, that's about as likely as the government issuing weapons in the first place. One of the domestic manufacturers would have to come up with a modified clone of some sort.

The AR-15 is too expensive/complex and its various advantages would be wasted on a lightly trained militia force.

The Swiss hand out the Sig 551, yes, but they're only equipping a country slightly larger than Maryland.

 

[shevrock]

A saiga in .223/ 5.56 would be ideal i believe after reading some of this.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

so if we decided on a 5.56 gun, why not issue the century C-15s?

 

[NCsmitty]

Why mess around with inferior 5.56 or 7.6x51, go big. M82A3 50 Cal. get them before they can get you.