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What's the PRIMARY REASON why the Anti-2A Camp so often seems to be more successful at its mission t

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by HetchHetchy, Oct 15, 2016.

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What are the THREE PRIMARY REASONS why the Anti-2A Camp seems to be more successful at its mission?

  1. Children once learned to respect and understand firearms. Today they are taught to fear and hate th

    31 vote(s)
    46.3%
  2. The Anti-2A Camp has become expert at using the horrors of "mass shootings" to promote their agenda.

    27 vote(s)
    40.3%
  3. The Anti-2A Camp enjoys superior leadership.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Urbanization has caused an increasing number to live in settings where they fear guns. There's simp

    24 vote(s)
    35.8%
  5. Anti-Gun is simply easier to sell than Pro-Gun in today's world.

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. The Pro-2A Camp simply offend too many potential supporters with their constant rants against "liber

    7 vote(s)
    10.4%
  7. Mainstream media aids and abets the Anti-2A Camp's mission.

    53 vote(s)
    79.1%
  8. The Anti-2A Camp is simply better at using the media.

    10 vote(s)
    14.9%
  9. Some who claim to speak for the Pro-2A Camp say some disturbing and sometimes scary things.

    5 vote(s)
    7.5%
  10. The actions of some alleged Pro-2A members (eg. open carry commandos) make the masses welcome more g

    4 vote(s)
    6.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    What are the THREE PRIMARY REASONS why the Anti-2A Camp so often seems to be more successful at its mission than the Pro-2A Camp?
     
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  2. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

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    I would have added that the anti-gun groups have much better funding. Bloomberg and Soros spend lots more money than the pro-gun groups have to spend. We are out spent by a factor of 10 or more.
     
  3. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    Because it's easy to frame and sell a position, when you aren't constrained by the truth
     
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  4. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    Because we don't do anything to help ourselves, except make pronouncements and preach to ourselves. You can't fight the legislative process by not legislating.


    And, we don't have a coherent message.
     
  5. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    I would have added a lot too except this new format accepts a total of 10 choices rather than the 20 of old. Here were all of my original choices:


    What's the PRIMARY REASON why the Anti-2A Camp so often seems to be more successful at its mission than the Pro-2A Camp?

    Urbanization has caused an increasing number to live in settings where they fear guns. There's simply more of them.

    Anti-Gun is simply easier to sell than Pro-Gun in today's world.

    Children once learned to respect and understand firearms. Today they are taught to fear and hate them.

    The Anti-2A Camp has become expert at using the horrors of "mass shootings" to promote their agenda.

    The Anti-2A Camp enjoys superior leadership.

    The Anti-2A Camp does a better job of supporting sympathetic politicos.

    The Anti-2A Camp are better team players.

    Gun makers haven't been all that savvy in marketing firearms in a more widely accepted manner.

    The Pro-2A Camp simply offend too many potential supporters with their constant rants against "liberals."

    Mainstream media aids and abets the Anti-2A Camp's mission.

    The Anti-2A Camp is simply better at using the media.

    Some who claim to speak for the Pro-2A Camp say some disturbing and sometimes scary things.

    The actions of some alleged Pro-2A members (eg. open carry commandos) make the masses welcome more gun control.

    The NRA and other pro-2A organizations are often embarassing in the execution of their missions.

    Anti-2A members are simply smarter than Pro-2A members.

    Anti-2A members are simply more educated than Pro-2A members.

    Too many Pro-2A members are too often bitterly apathetic. They're already defeated based on their inaction.

    Pro-2A members would too often rather retreat (and then boast about it) than stand and fight.

    Anti-2A members are more patient. They realize that change can take decades.

    Like abortion, the Democratic Party has made gun control a permanent part of its platform.
     
  6. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    No sale. Sounds nice, but no sale.
     
  7. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    I don't think you can narrow it down to any three "primary reasons." But the sad fact is, the anti-gun folk simply come across on the mass media as appearing more "reasonable" than the "extremist" pro-gun folk. We've got an image problem, and our worst examples keep coming to the forefront appearing to be the face of our movement, whereas the anti-gun folk trot out far more presentable, "normal-looking" spokespersons.
     
  8. dpsurveyor

    dpsurveyor Member

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    In the last month or so I have noticed the NRA has been running TV adds using "minorities" - young women, black lawyers, college aged students, etc. All claiming to be NRA members and carrying concealed. I think this is a move in the right direction for putting gun owners in a better light. We gun owners are "normal" people who like to exercise out 2A rights and those rights are available to all US citizens. People tend to forget that last part. Our forefathers died giving us that right and we all need to stand and protect that right, gun owner or not. In the past the NRA has been a bit more militant in advocating the 2A and I think the general population has been put off by it. Now they are seeing an actual face of some one who owns a gun and they see those people don't look any different that you and I. They don't have three eyes nor are they wild and crazy as the anti's would have us believe. Good move, NRA.
     
  9. lilguy

    lilguy Member

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    I've never seen those NRA spots on the anti gun (most) networks. Am I missing something?
     
  10. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Consider pre-1934 when there were essentially no restrictions. There was only one direction to go. So it should be no surprise that's the way things went.

    Having said that, I reject the notion they are winning, at least to a degree. Look at the number of CCW states now as compared to 15 years ago. Look at Heller. We seem to have scored some pretty good wins along the way. Yes, there have been some mag size restrictions, and a couple of new UBC states, but we have made some progress too.
     
  11. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    Well, you don't have to buy it.
    I still think it plays an important role in the anti-gunners playbook.
    Do you think the stats, and logic they use are correct?

    And I agree with Elkins45, they aren't winning. At least, not so much as they'd have you believe they are.
     
  12. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    I don't believe anyone out funds the NRA.

    The fact is that lots of pro-gun people and politicians are also horrible with regard to other issues that people care about. This current election cycle is a perfect illustration of that. Trump claims to be pro-gun but his views on other issues along with things he has said in the past are turning him off to many. His comments about "2nd Amendment People" and other things like that do not help gun rights at all and make many people very uncomfortable. The same when Sarah Palin said "2nd Amendment Remedies" with regards to the 2012 election. They are implying that there will be a revolution and violence if they and their followers do not get their way. This goes against the entire idea of democracy and turns many people off to the idea of people being allowed to buy guns.

    Of course there is also things like the idea of allowing people on the terror watchlist to buy firearms. This sounds like a bad idea on its face but with more education people will realize that many people who are on there are not on there for any good reason nor have any of those people necessarily committed a crime. But it is hard to explain to a culture and society that lives for sound bites and eschews real discussion.
     
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  13. Cannibul

    Cannibul Member

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    You start by brainwashing the children.
     
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  14. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    Yup...the old saw holds true; A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

    If it wasn't for Bloomberg / Soros etc. money, the gun control "debate" may very well be dead in today's climate.

    Just last week I listened to a podcast that had a former anti-gun person telling why he had changed his position.
    He grew up in a small town, and all his relatives and friends were hunters. He moved to a big city to attend college, and was pretty much brainwashed by the constant anti-2nd Amendment / anti-gun miems.

    He says one that he most often heard was the NRA lies...so he went looking for those lies and says he has yet to find them.
     
  15. Smith357

    Smith357 Member

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    The anti Constitution left controls the language, notice how even we call it "gun control" when the proper term would be "rights infringement"
     
  16. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    Sure you can. Just put them in order based on what you believe their level of impact are.
     
  17. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    Part of our problem is that we mistake our own internal propaganda for marketing. But the rest of the country does not get the wit and witticism of Ted Nugent.

    Another problem for us is that we are essentially selling a personal liberty as part of the Conservative platform - which is generally and historically not much for defending personal liberties. It is difficult to make a coherent message of "firearms for all" when we are simultaneously backing police as part of the "law and order" tradition, and those police by training, policy and public statement hate guns.

    It would make a lot more sense if the NRA was publicly critical every time the police shot a man because they thought there was a gun. But we get real quiet every time a fellow gun owner is killed by police without firing a shot.
     
  18. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    I think "The Pro-2A Camp simply offend too many potential supporters with their constant rants against "liberals."" also belongs in the top 3. The continued bitter rants about "liberals" drives many out of the Pro-2A Camp. While it might feel good to some to rant, it's very self-defeating in the long run.
     
  19. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    For the longest time, Tom Gresham pointed out to folks that there were many Democrats that are gun owners, and we should be careful about alienating them.

    A few months ago he changed his stance, stating with the current political climate and HRC's candidacy...well, if you're a Democrat (voting Democratic) you're not for the 2nd Amendment.

    He stated he was sorry, but that's just the way it is...
     
  20. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    If you only read Die Volkischer Beobachter and the Mainichi Shimbun in December 1944, you'd think that Germany and Japan were winning the war.

    We can't stop the anti-gun cult from believing its own propaganda. That doesn't me WE have to believe it.
     
  21. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    There's absolutely no way that someone like Gresham would advocate attacking (collectively or individually) "liberals" as some in the Pro-2A Camp are so quick to do. Absolutely no way.
     
  22. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    Very good points...
     
  23. HetchHetchy

    HetchHetchy Member

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    I have to agree...
     
  24. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    It sounds like we have nothing to worry about, then. Carry on.
     
  25. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    1. I'm not a conservative. I'm a liberal. There's NOTHING "liberal" about gun control. It is by turns, racist, misogynistic and fascistic.
    2. Nobody's ever accused me of being a cop fanboi or promoting idolatry of police. They have a name for places where only the police have guns... "police state". The places with the worst records of police bias and criminality are also gun control "paradises", like NYC and Chicago.
    You have a VERY narrow view of what passes for the pro-gun side... probably by design.
     
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