What's the worst that can happen when your CCW is printing?

[Don't Tread On Me]

The whole printing thing is almost like the whole scared-to-keep-a-round-in-the-pipe thing for newbie conceald carriers.


No one is advocating you strap a 1911 long slide on a bulky holster while wearing a untucked body-tight silk shirt.


If you get a little buldge from the grip or some minor printing in certain positions, it isn't the end of the world.


If you print constantly - that's BAD.


What we're talking about here is the over-reaction and obsessiveness of people in concealing their pistol so that detection is completely impossible without being frisked. No need to give up an effective carry method, or put yourself out in the process, or get something uncomfortable because you fear the magazine eject button might be printing.


Remember, printing always, always, always looks worse to you. Why? Because 1] you're looking at it from the worst possible angle 2] you know where it is, what it looks like and you know it even exists in the first place.


If you're worried, ask a friend if they can (assuming they don't know your method of carry) see a gun on you. If they can't find it - great. If they have to sit there and stare for more than 5 seconds searching buldges on your body for the spot - you're good to go even if they do find it.

 

[Pat Cannon]

AirPower,

Having sobered up, I now realize you meant 'the worst that's likely to happen'.

Bobo pretty much nailed it: legally it depends totally on the state you're in. I read in a column by the late great Jeff Cooper last year that a tourist in Vermont called the police because they saw a man with a gun, and the cops basically said "and you're calling us because...???"

Here where I live in Minnesota, there's no legal requirement to conceal, so if your jacket blows open or something, no big deal. A guy I shoot IDPA with was having lunch in a bar and somebody caught sight of his pistol and called the cops. The cop basically asked to see his permit and said thanks and have a nice day.

In Texas, on the other hand, I'm told if you accidentally allow your weapon to be seen, you've committed a crime -- I believe I've even heard it's a felony, but don't take my word for that, it seems incredible.

 

[308win]

The instrutor in my CCW class made a point of emphasizing the dangers of not keeping your weapon concealed and he was adamant that if a concerned citizen called the police you could be cited for inducing panic. He was also of the opinion that open carry could end in the same result. He qualified this by stating that the police could have considerable latitude in how they dealt with you in most jurisdictions (presumably excluding Columbus, Toledo, Cleveland and probably some others).

 

[mpmarty]

the worst

that could happen? How bout the goon behind you snatching your piece, blowing you away and then going off on all the nearby citizens? Now to get real, the average person does not scan everyone nearby for a concealed piece. As has been said before, you are much more worried about it than you should be just because you are self-aware and know you are carrying. I've carried for over forty years and generally after getting dressed forget all about it. Do I print sometimes? Yeah, and sometimes I carry in a bag which in this part of the country screams firearm loud and clear. I keep hoping to be asked by someone if I have a pistol in the bag, answering "Yes" and being asked why I do that so I can tell them "'Cause I cant fit my rifle in this stupid damn bag."

 

[kengrubb]

Has anyone been walking around for half a day and then realize their carry piece has been exposed all that time?

All day? No. Gotten outta the car once or twice and had my shirt snagged on the top of my gun. Calmly tug the shirt back down over the gun, and move on.

What's the worst that can happen?

In theory, someone might call the police reporting "man with a gun". The cops would come and likely ask me to keep my hands away from my gun. They would then likely ask whether I had a Concealed Pistol License. I'd probably get a lecture about the seriousness of carrying a gun, how it's not a right and the license can be revoked, and I'd probably be sent on my way with the figurative equivalent of a pants down spanking.

Can stores toss you out, and restaurants refuse service?

They can do that already for a whole host of reasons. No shirt, no shoes, no service.

Openly carrying a gun in a store that doesn't want you in there openly carrying a gun? Yep, they can ask you to leave. Whether there is any legal infraction or not depends upon the state in question.

In truth, a store can toss you out because you're the wrong color. Oh, they won't claim it outright, "Officer, I want that man outta here. He's <fill in a color of your choosing>!" But, it would easy enough for a store owner or manager to concoct a B.S. argument. "He was about to stuff merchandise into his jacket when we happened upon him." "He used profanity." He threatened to kill me." "He said my Momma was so fat that every time the b*tch went outside in a red dress kids called out, 'Heh, Kool-Aid!'"

or has anyone screamed "A GUN!" right behind your back?

That horse was kicked around a bit here.

 

[stevelyn]

Nobody in Alaska really pays any attention to a gun unless you're waving it around.
I've found most folks have their heads elsewhere anyways and don't even notice.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

okay, let's take the opposite. What is the BEST that can happen when your CCW is printing?

A fellow gunny, dying from an obscure disease, notes you are carrying and wills you his collection because his wife doesn't share his hobby?

Nah, never happen. Cuz when he cheerfully asks you your name to add to his beneficiary page, you'll say, "No way! You just wanna know who I am so you can rob my house of all MY guns!" We gun owners are a suspicious lot.


My P-32 prints my back pocket 100% of the time. Of course I know what it is, but it sure looks like a gun to me. So far, nobody has said anything. It's in an Uncle Mikes pocket holster, but I've thought of one of those leather ones that have the flat flap that covers it.

 

[jfan]

What's the worst that can happen?......Probably this (situation went down about a mile from my house):

http://www.ohioccw.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3672

If you have some time, watch the video.

 

[lurkersince03]

Woah dude. That's crazy. I just watched the video. The police seemed to be operating professionally, but still.. I'd be upset, too (if I was Dan Sayers).

After further into it: Wow. I mean, I feel hot just watching this. And it seems like they're trying to pin that failure to inform charge on him just to prove that they were right. But whatever. That's BS.

 

[51Cards]

"On the Beach" meets "The Day the Earth Stood Still!" Excellent, Pat!

Klaatu barato nektu. Dive, dive, dive ...

 

[evan price]

Calling the Dan Sayers V Oregon, Ohio mess an example of "Printing going bad" is like calling the first-date kiss a full-blown orgy.
Without turning this into a "Bash Dan Sayers" thread, I'd like to point out a few things.

#1. Dan was open carrying a pair of Bersa .380's in shoulder holsters with no attempt to conceal. Ohio arguably "allows" open carry but it is not a specific law you can point to, it is nebulous in the Ohio Constitution does not FORBID open carry and grants the right to bear arms. Be aware, I personally am an Ohioan and open carry often as well so I am not cracking on Dan here.

#2. Oregon, Ohio has a local ordinance in place that forbids carrying guns (or any weapons) in city limits, period. This is based upon the Toledo laws also in place. The law is probably unconstitutional. With the recent rulings in Ohio regarding pre-emption, the law is even more cloudy however and we Ohioans are hoping HB347 will clear things up and address pre-emption properly. This law is being actively researched to be overturned. It is not widely known and most people were surprised it existed at all including a lot of people who pass through the area armed.

#3. Without going to any details or offering any judgement, Dan has a "history" in Oregon. Not a big one. He's no criminal. Oregon is a small town though, and as any Navy man says, "Never give the Master Chief a reason to know your name". They know his name. I was pretty much the same in my home town, that's why I moved.

#4. When you watch the video watch the whole video, again, not bashing on Dan here, but his conduct perhaps caused this to go farther than it needed to, however, Dan is quick to point out that he was the one with the automatic rifles pointed at his head during the felony stop and he was understandably stressed.

#5. The entire incident resulted from Dan stopping at a local gas station he frequents normally, getting out, pumping gas, checking oil, cleaning windows and lights, etc. and then paying for his fuel, while open carrying a pair of Bersa .380's in shoulder holsters. Some passer by or other customer saw him and called in to the police about a man with guns. The gas station was not posted no guns. As a matter of fact Dan was unaware of the city ordinance prohibiting carrying of weapons as was most of the police force. It wound up taking several hours for the city prosecuter to locate a charge for Dan.

#6. While Dan's conduct was brought up, the conduct of the city prosecutor and court staff is also somewhat reprehensible. The language used in court documents and submissions and the way Dan has been treated really is unprofessional in my opinion. It is obvious to me that a large portion of this case is based on a small town attitude and desire to "teach Dan a lesson" or something. I would go so far as to say the prosecutor has a case of "small dog syndrome".

So, please, follow up on the details and judge for yourself. The Ohio CCW forums are free for all.
With good luck and good attorneys this will all go away.

 

[glennv]

There isn't any law being broken if you are printing in RI. There are two types of permits too. One is a CCW permit given by local police. I assume this means it must be concealed at all times. The AG also issues permits which do not require that the gun be concealed. (Although stupid to open carry in RI) I have a permit through the AG which pretty much makes printing a nonissue if open carry is legal.

I print like mad sometimes but nobody here has a clue. Look at the size of some of the phones and MP3 devices that people carry these days. 99.9% of the population, including cops, have any clue as to what's under your shirt.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

"...having lunch in a bar and somebody caught sight of his pistol and called the cops. The cop basically asked to see his permit and said thanks and have a nice day."

Wow, they have some liberal laws up there. In Florida, he would be out on bail right now.

 

[Pat Cannon]

Dr. Dickie:

"...having lunch in a bar and somebody caught sight of his pistol and called the cops. The cop basically asked to see his permit and said thanks and have a nice day."

Wow, they have some liberal laws up there. In Florida, he would be out on bail right now.

Not liberal really, just reasonable. Yes, the people who drafted our carry law did a pretty good job. You can be where alcohol is served in Minnesota, you just can't be over .04 blood alcohol content. So basically, one beer is fine. Maybe a couple if you're big.

 

[Taurus 66]

What's the worst that can happen?......Probably this (situation went down about a mile from my house):

http://www.ohioccw.org/index.php?opt...k=view&id=3672

If you have some time, watch the video.

I watched 32 minutes of it before it became painfully boring. The police were using every psychology trick in the book in an attempt to have him convince himself he was wrong. The man did a great job standing his ground. His handguns and permit were legal.

 

[benEzra]

Legally, depends on your state.

Tactically, depends on who notices and what their intentions are.

 

[Eyesac]

Too Funny Pat..

 

[seeker_two]

The snipers get you first.....


Just like everyone above....don't be self-conscious about it, and you'll be suprised at just what most people DON'T see during the day....

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Dan Sayers V Oregon

Hmmm.....looks and sounds a bit like what would happen to you in Michigan, even though there is no law against open carry here either. Depending on the cop and/or location, you would die, get thrown in jail, or be told "Put that away, it might not be me that sees you the next time."

 

[lawson]

What's the worst that can happen?

someone can ask you why you prefer a revolver over a Glock and try to debate about it in the grocery store, 7 am on a sunday when you're buying milk and a newspaper.

I LOVE Arizona.

and yes, that happened twice in one week. once in the grocery store, once in line at a coffee shop (yes a coffee shop, notorious den of hippies and antis).this was during an experiment in which i carried open for one month to see the reactions i would get. i got far more positive reactions then negative. people here either don't notice, or if they're Arizona natives, seeing a civilian wearing a gun out in the open is nothing new.

granted, this is an open carry state so people are used to it. in many areas of the country i would definitely carry concealed and make sure it didn't print.

 

[JohnKSa]

I'd say the worst thing that could happen, though unlikely, is for some nut to grab it and do who knows what with it.

 

[Essex County]

I live west of Geezer........Absolutely nothing.....Essex

 

[LexusNexus]

hopefully soccer mom wont' freak out.

 

[Nitrogen]

In Texas, on the other hand, I'm told if you accidentally allow your weapon to be seen, you've committed a crime -- I believe I've even heard it's a felony, but don't take my word for that, it seems incredible.

This has no basis in Texas law, but some overzealous law enforcement might decide to give you a hard time.

Texas law states:

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

[...]

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), [...]
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.

In other words, you have to be intentional. Printing doesn't count. You have to intentionally pull up your cover garment, or make some type of intentional gesture to be found guilty.
The sections (b)(1) and (b)(3) deal with places where concealed carry is not permitted. That's the only way I know of you can get charged with a felony for carrying with a CHL. (In certain types of bars and in correctional institutions)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm new to CCW but I learn fast and I'll echo what a lot of posts already said.

If you're printing most people won't even notice. I've found those who don't carry don't know what they are seeing and those who do know don't care because they are probably carrying too.

Short story about nobody noticing what they are seeing.... Last year in Brooklyn NY, 2 young girls (about 18) took off their tops and walked across the crowded Avenue, breasts standing out proud, past many people and cars and I didn't see anyone even look at them. Out of the 25 or so people that should have seen them I was apparently the only one that got to enjoy the sight of their breasts'. As I passed them crossing the street all I did was give them the thumbs-up and smile. They smiled back, looked at each other and gave a little laugh and kept walking. (too bad I'm old and married)

What I'm trying to say is, if nobody noticed those lovely breasts I'm totally sure they won't notice a bump in your shirt.