whats with spray and pray?

[Axis II]

had a range session yesterday with a couple of buddies and the one guy thinks he such a crack shot but sprays bullets down range so fast you think the Taliban was shooting at him. within 5 min his 308 bolt gun was too hot to handle. the guy next to us is shooting an ar-15 and just lighting up the hillside, then another guy brings out a ar-10 heavy barrel with what looked like a night force scope and goes to town. what's the deal with this? you spent 3k on a rifle to sling lead like a tommy gun.. when I shoot I let everything settle down, my mind clear and block out everything else other than the tiny red dot and let everything line up. I personally like shooting one hole until the quarter size dot disappears.

I have to admit it kind of irritates me that people spray and pray, to me it shows lack of common sense, safety and that your trying to be a show off and then they get mad at me when I say hey look what I did..

why not sit down and actually see what your gun can do instead of sling 100rds at the target and cause you hit it 20 out of 100 its fine then say its a combat gun that's what its made for. :banghead: is it really that hard to get good accuracy out of semi autos? never messed with them, I like the safety and accuracy of a bolt gun.

 

[dogmush]

They're having fun.

It's a hobby. It's supposed to be fun.

Why do you care so much how other folks shoot?

is it really that hard to get good accuracy out of semi autos? never messed with them, I like the safety and accuracy of a bolt gun.

Nope. I have a couple of pretty dang accurate semi's. Not hard at all.

 

[Steve C]

Basically they are playing like a child, emulating what they see on TV and in the movies. Their range behavior is not serious practice or skill development. They may be deluding themselves regarding their ability with a rifle or any other firearm. Nothing really wrong with play, just annoying to people like yourself who are more serious regarding their marksmanship.

 

[Sam1911]

Some folks just like the noise and recoil. Nothing wrong with that if they're safe.

...

Some other folks are interested in practicing more dynamic shooting, like happens on a real battlefield where you can't always get a good solid bench rest, settle down, clear your mind, and block out everything else. And where one shot every few minutes is so far removed from reality as to be pretty much irrelevant.

It's funny, but we've somehow "evolved" to the idea that rifles are only properly used for high-precision, slow, calm, unstressed shooting, and that using them in a high-speed, dynamic way is not really worthy. As though the use of arms was completely summed up by the DCM 3-position match format, or bench-rest. When in reality, no body shoots like that in "real life" outside of such highly regimented competitions or plinking at the range.

Spray and Pray?

 

[eldon519]

Maybe you are more interested in bullseye and they are more interested in IDPA?

 

[bikemutt]

Since my closest range only allows 1 round in the rifle anyway, not a problem there. The other range allows 10 rounds maximum. My shooting buddy is more inclined to spray and pray than I am but once in while I like to just let go with an ammo dump. For that I'll use my 9mm or 57x28 weapons; both ranges let us have at it with pistol caliber, on the pistol range.

To each his or her own is my feeling on the matter, as long as safety protocols are adhered to.

 

[Ed Ames]

had a range session yesterday with a couple of buddies and ...

that people spray and pray, to me it shows lack of common sense, safety and that your trying to be a show off and then they get mad at me when I say hey look what I did..

why not sit down and actually see what your gun can do instead of sling 100rds at the target and cause you hit it 20 out of 100 its fine then say its a combat gun that's what its made for. :banghead: is it really that hard to get good accuracy out of semi autos? never messed with them, I like the safety and accuracy of a bolt gun.

1) What you describe - as far as I can tell from your description - may or may not be "spraying and praying". Your post had a distinct vibe of "they aren't following my rules so must be wrong."

2) rapid fire is a distinct skill requiring practice to master. It is not easy to do right. Things like double tapping require practice.

3) bolt guns are no safer than semi-autos. What you were doing was - absent evidence not presented - no safer and no more skilled than what they were doing.

 

[HOOfan_1]

What's with people looking down on how other people safely enjoy shooting sports?

We have enough enemies on the outside.

 

[Bart B.]

"Spray and Pray" is also a term used to describe how military personnel getting firearms instructions don't follow them but spray bullets all over the place praying some of them will strike their intended marks in actual combat.

That's how a former USN SEAL team commander described the middle eastern military people who could not comprehend the purpose of aimed fire. Instead, they used their firearms in the spray and pray method and rarely hit any targets; both in training and combat. The SEAL team commander and his men tried everything possible through their interpreter to the troops, but they never grasped the importance of reasonable combat marksmanship.

 

[jlr1962]

Sounds like fun. They must have more money for ammo than you do. I only one have one place that I know of to do that around here that doesn't have country club priced membership. I went there once, there was a 45 minute wait. No Thanks.

The "one shot per second" rule is the norm at most places around here.

 

[Lord Teapot]

as long as you're on target. better to practice rapid fire when you can, you might need it one day when you have <1 second to engage.

 

[Sam1911]

middle eastern military people who could not comprehend the purpose of aimed fire.

Insha'Allah, the concept that all is in the hands of god and whether a bullet strikes an enemy or not is not in the hands of the warrior, but of god, who's tool the warrior is.

Probably doesn't apply to this situation, though!

 

[almherdfan]

I gotta admit, I'm with the OP on this. I dislike watching guys show up with 10K worth of tricked out ARs and then burn through $100 of ammo in 15-minutes, mostly missing their 50-yard targets by 20-yards. Just as I'd laugh at a guy with a high-end Porsche doing donuts in the HS parking lot. I guess it's contrary to my training (limited as it is) and nature.

However, as long as someone is safe, it's not my problem. They can shoot as they like and I will shoot as I like.

 

[Axis II]

I have no real problem with them doing it as long as it is safe but imo it draws attention to them that isn't needed. the funny thing about it is they didn't hit the target it was like yeah call of duty...pew, pew pew pew pew.

my buddy broke out his semi auto and hit the target maybe 2 times in 20rds so jokingly i started shooting his target without him knowing it so he gets mad at me after i say im just trying to help ya, lol and begins to spray my target and hit it 1 time out of like 20. wasn't really bashing how anyone shoots i just didn't see the sense in laying down $30 worth of ammo as fast as you can.

i practice real life with handgun because i carry it daily to save my life so i practice real life with it and shotgun but to stand there and sling 30rds and have the whole line look at you like what the hell, i just don't get it. to me is shows immaturity. I have shot ar-15 rapid fire here and there but the gun was sighted in and hit darn close to bull each time.

sorry if I offended anyone with this thread, wasn't meant to.

 

[ljnowell]

Maybe you are more interested in bullseye and they are more interested in IDPA?

I'm not sure that analogy works. In bullseye we have both 20 second timed fire and 10 second rapid fire.

 

[Olympus]

That's why I enjoy my own private range. I can shoot how I want without fear of judgement.

Like others have said, it's their money and their guns, they have a right to shoot them however they please as long as it is in a safe manner. Different strokes for different folks. Just because something is not the way I do it or think it should be done, doesn't mean that's the only way to do something. You never know the bigger picture. They could have been out there every week before, slow firing for accuracy when you weren't there and you just happen to be there the time they just wanted to let the lead fly. Be safe, have fun, and find enjoyment when others are doing the same.

 

[fotheringill]

I just shred paper with a 22 at 50 yards on a 25 bull target. It takes about 20 seconds to load single shot, adjust aim to the next target and squeeze. I don't much care what the other people around me are doing as long as they don't his my target.

Each to his or her own.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Long as no one's covering me up with brass, I don't care. I actually like watching people shoot large quantities of ammo

 

[Sol]

Insha'Allah, the concept that all is in the hands of god and whether a bullet strikes an enemy or not is not in the hands of the warrior, but of god, who's tool the warrior is.

Probably doesn't apply to this situation, though!

I knew a veteran of the Arab Israeli war and that guy could shoot...accurately too. He was a humble guy about his shooting.

His old-country buddies would brag about all the stuff he did and he would just walk away. He stayed over there while his family hitched a ride on the S.S. Marine Carp.

Anyways, back then some of those guys knew how to fight. This was pre-radicalization of the area, where skills were valued such as being able to make stuff, read, write, hunt, farm....work for a living lol.

As for the OP, as long as they are safe that's fine. Hitting paper every now and then is cool too. Hopefully they can attain combat accuracy with their crazy gear.

 

[eldon519]

ljnowell, I'm aware, but while in both sports, speed and accuracy are important and a balance must be struck, I'd say bullseye puts more priority on accuracy and IDPA more priority on speed. This is reflected in the scoring where bullseye is in points, and IDPA is in seconds. Just my perception, perhaps the analogy doesn't resonate with you.

 

[Sunray]

"...emulating what they see on TV and in the movies..." Yep and it takes a lot less than 5 minutes to get a barrel too hot to touch. Constant rapid fire wears barrels and is the major cause of guys getting kicked off some ranges.

 

[TwinReverb]

Most people i guess don't realize that they're not laying down suppressive fire add if they're in the military.

Speed is nice but accuracy is final.

 

[TwinReverb]

They're having fun.

It's a hobby. It's supposed to be fun.

Why do you care so much how other folks shoot?



Nope. I have a couple of pretty dang accurate semi's. Not hard at all.

It is their life. However, if someone does this in a real self defense incident, innocent people could get injured or die. And if one of those were a loved one and in my presence, you can bet they're getting sued, if I'm able to restrain my anger.

This is where mentorship should come in. Not the range ninja, but a friend of theirs. Teach them to train how they intend to fight.

Just FYI not even military types get away with friendly fire or civilian casualties. Not easily, at least. Usually civilians don't get away with it in real life either, and I'm all for manslaughter charges if and when someone is negligent.

 

[briansmithwins]

The local rifle match I shoot emphasizes accuracy, but we also shoot for lowest time and have multiple targets.

It may look like we're spraying and praying but misses don't count, only hits:

http://youtu.be/7YMdViFAr2Q

Other rifle match videos can be found at RTF's YouTube site.

BSW

 

[ttarp]

I've seen folks hang up targets look like shotgun patterns and they couldn't be more proud of them, so I think I get where you're coming from.

But like already stated, sometimes its just fun to unload that last half of the magazine just to see how fast you can. I pretty much only practice "double taps" or whatever you want to call it, when I'm the only one at the range though, I feel a sense of guilt if I fire more than 1 bullet every 10 seconds or so.

Most of my range time these days is practicing awful hand with my bolt .22 anyway though, so my targets probably look like your spray and prayer's on a good day.