txcookie
Member
I read a lot of people talking noise about them but don't understand why. I've seen 2 cdl .5 moa out of they box. Great triggers I just don't get it. Is it just fan boys dogging other brands?
What's wrong with remington?
- Thread starter txcookie
- Start date
- Status
Ar180shooter
Member
No, Remington QC has been terrible for years, ever since Freedom Group bought them out. They're not the company they once were.
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 7,340
"What's wrong with remington?"
Remington.
"Is it just fan boys dogging other brands?"
You haven't read nearly enough on the subject. There's always fanboyism, but this is a whole 'nuther can of incompetent worms. Remington is basically rotten from top to bottom in entire branches of its corporate structure (workman to executive), and has had an uncanny ability, courtesy of Freedom Group, to acquire other companies (like Marlin) with similar systemic problems in an ill-fated bid to improve itself through predation. Meanwhile internally destroying the few quality brands they luckily scored by accident (AAC).
The 700 scandal gets press because there are lots of those guns and rumors of the issue have been around for years. All those folks are now crowing "I told you so" which is why the story has such legs. A buggy product being recalled is nothing new. The disasters that are the R51, ACR, AAC's treatment, and several other scandals indicate far more fundamental problems regarding the basics of manufacturing, marketing, and management (simultaneously, not respectively, btw) across the entire organization.
TCB
Remington.
"Is it just fan boys dogging other brands?"
You haven't read nearly enough on the subject. There's always fanboyism, but this is a whole 'nuther can of incompetent worms. Remington is basically rotten from top to bottom in entire branches of its corporate structure (workman to executive), and has had an uncanny ability, courtesy of Freedom Group, to acquire other companies (like Marlin) with similar systemic problems in an ill-fated bid to improve itself through predation. Meanwhile internally destroying the few quality brands they luckily scored by accident (AAC).
The 700 scandal gets press because there are lots of those guns and rumors of the issue have been around for years. All those folks are now crowing "I told you so" which is why the story has such legs. A buggy product being recalled is nothing new. The disasters that are the R51, ACR, AAC's treatment, and several other scandals indicate far more fundamental problems regarding the basics of manufacturing, marketing, and management (simultaneously, not respectively, btw) across the entire organization.
TCB
Damon555
Member
If you have 2 rifles that have been perfectly fine then there's your answer.....Nothing wrong with any of the recent models that I've owned either.
greyling22
Member
I think it varies depending on gun make and model. The exmples I have the most familiarity with are marlin lever guns. the initial remington built ones were just terrible: poor wood to metal and metal to metal fit, stripped screws, improperly indexed barrels, it was a disaster. But the plastic stocked marlin bolt guns were find I think.
I think that if it takes any amount of skill or hand fitting, etc, remington does a poor job. If it can be stamped out on a cnc machine and assembled by a monkey, they they produce an acceptable product. Hopefully they will improve their game.
I think that if it takes any amount of skill or hand fitting, etc, remington does a poor job. If it can be stamped out on a cnc machine and assembled by a monkey, they they produce an acceptable product. Hopefully they will improve their game.
There are several different issues. Remington certainly has some problems, but I do believe they are somewhat overrated.
One of the biggest complaints is with poor workmanship on their budget guns. What do you expect for a $250 model 870 or a $350 model 700? There is so much competition to build a gun that can be sold for the cheapest price that all gun companies have been forced to cut corners. Remington still offers a $700 model 870 and a $900 model 700 that is as nicely finished as ever. But instead of paying for the quality rifle like you did some will buy the $350 rifle and then complain that it isn't as nice as what Remington used to make.
The problem with the trigger has been around since the 1940's. It is a very real problem, but happens so rarely that until the internet most folks had never heard of the problem. If I owned a Remington 700, 7, 600, 660, or any other version with the Walker trigger design made before 2007 I'd have it replaced with aftermarket.
Remington corrected the problem with the new trigger, but the most recent recall combined with folks just starting to discover the problem with the old trigger is the last straw for a lot of people. The 1946-2006 trigger is a flawed design that still works fine most of the time. The new trigger is a solid design, but most folks misunderstand the reason for the current recall. There isn't anything wrong with the new trigger design. But during assembly some adhesive may have gotten into the trigger group on some guns.
I've owned a bunch of Remingtons (more than all other brands combined), including one that has fired with no trigger pull. If I wanted a Remington I'd still buy one. Even an older version with the problematic trigger. I've just come to appreciate and like other brands and their design features more than Remington. I wouldn't let the perceived lack of quality stop me if I liked the design.
One of the biggest complaints is with poor workmanship on their budget guns. What do you expect for a $250 model 870 or a $350 model 700? There is so much competition to build a gun that can be sold for the cheapest price that all gun companies have been forced to cut corners. Remington still offers a $700 model 870 and a $900 model 700 that is as nicely finished as ever. But instead of paying for the quality rifle like you did some will buy the $350 rifle and then complain that it isn't as nice as what Remington used to make.
The problem with the trigger has been around since the 1940's. It is a very real problem, but happens so rarely that until the internet most folks had never heard of the problem. If I owned a Remington 700, 7, 600, 660, or any other version with the Walker trigger design made before 2007 I'd have it replaced with aftermarket.
Remington corrected the problem with the new trigger, but the most recent recall combined with folks just starting to discover the problem with the old trigger is the last straw for a lot of people. The 1946-2006 trigger is a flawed design that still works fine most of the time. The new trigger is a solid design, but most folks misunderstand the reason for the current recall. There isn't anything wrong with the new trigger design. But during assembly some adhesive may have gotten into the trigger group on some guns.
I've owned a bunch of Remingtons (more than all other brands combined), including one that has fired with no trigger pull. If I wanted a Remington I'd still buy one. Even an older version with the problematic trigger. I've just come to appreciate and like other brands and their design features more than Remington. I wouldn't let the perceived lack of quality stop me if I liked the design.
Hello:
Remington has also imported some rem 799 and 798 rifles along with a couple others that slip my mind at the moment.
Problem with this was Remington imported them from zastava serbia and dropped the line just a couple years later WITH NO PARTS OR SUPPORT.
Gotta hate remington for that because it does show you how they treat there end users
Head Shot
Remington has also imported some rem 799 and 798 rifles along with a couple others that slip my mind at the moment.
Problem with this was Remington imported them from zastava serbia and dropped the line just a couple years later WITH NO PARTS OR SUPPORT.
Gotta hate remington for that because it does show you how they treat there end users
Head Shot
Sounds to me like Remington wants product out the door as fast and cheaply as possible. Workers are put under pretty rigorous time and productivity requirements. The really nicely fit and finished BDL 700s are gone like yesterday. They aint coming back. You can probly still get a shooter.
Funny that "everyone" hates Remington. Every time someone I know starts talking about getting a good bolt, the Remington 700 is one of most suggested.
Are there better? yes. Has Remington made mistakes? yes. Is the 700 one of the most purchased and successful bolts ever built? yes.
There are good 700's, budget 700's, cheap 700's and just bad 7XX models. You get what you pay for. An $800 VTR is not the same as a $1300 700 5R.
I like Savage as well. There are good Savage bolts and bad Savage bolts.
Are there better? yes. Has Remington made mistakes? yes. Is the 700 one of the most purchased and successful bolts ever built? yes.
There are good 700's, budget 700's, cheap 700's and just bad 7XX models. You get what you pay for. An $800 VTR is not the same as a $1300 700 5R.
I like Savage as well. There are good Savage bolts and bad Savage bolts.
I bought my last new 700 (a SPS) a few weeks back and this is what the bolt looked like(and no, this rifle was never fired by me).
Completely unacceptable for a new rifle. In addition this rifle went through the factory twice as Remington completed the trigger recall. I should have paid more attention before leaving the store with a bolt looking like that. However, the store I purchased it from replaced it for me.
The replacement rifle has a bolt that looks like it should but is not accurate at all. I have a late 90's ADL synthetic in 7MM RM that is head and shoulders better than this current model....in accuracy, fit, the finish is smoother, and the bolt operates much smoother.
Completely unacceptable for a new rifle. In addition this rifle went through the factory twice as Remington completed the trigger recall. I should have paid more attention before leaving the store with a bolt looking like that. However, the store I purchased it from replaced it for me.
The replacement rifle has a bolt that looks like it should but is not accurate at all. I have a late 90's ADL synthetic in 7MM RM that is head and shoulders better than this current model....in accuracy, fit, the finish is smoother, and the bolt operates much smoother.
What's wrong with Remington? I suspect not much, if any more, than any other manufacturer. I really like Remington's barrel quality. IMHO, they are among the best for run-of-the-mill barrels. That is to say, non-custom. Remington's M700 receivers are very strong and reliable. I do not like the extractors. I describe them as "anemic-at-best". JMHO. As a point of clarifying why I still believe that Remington is a viable product, and merits respect, I will state that I have had (as best I can recall the sum of all major name defective firearms) the following that arrived from the factory defective:
1 Weatherby Mark V (Fibermark)
1 Winchester M70 Super Grade
4 Kimber Custom Shop 1911s
3 Remigton 700s (2 Varmint and 1 Tactical)
1 Ruger Gunsite Scout
So, if one examines the list of defective firearms that I have bought, well, many of the major players' names are present. Does that mean Remington is a poor product? No, not in my opinion. However, I must confirm, that I did replace the factory triggers on two of my M700s, and one Vanguard, because they were substandard to MY standards for a trigger. None ever failed, simply they were too course for my likes.
Geno
1 Weatherby Mark V (Fibermark)
1 Winchester M70 Super Grade
4 Kimber Custom Shop 1911s
3 Remigton 700s (2 Varmint and 1 Tactical)
1 Ruger Gunsite Scout
So, if one examines the list of defective firearms that I have bought, well, many of the major players' names are present. Does that mean Remington is a poor product? No, not in my opinion. However, I must confirm, that I did replace the factory triggers on two of my M700s, and one Vanguard, because they were substandard to MY standards for a trigger. None ever failed, simply they were too course for my likes.
Geno
Just curious,
When in the mind of THR did the quality really start to go? I ask that for two reasons.
1. I bought a 2002ish 700 in .243 lightly used in 2005. The gun will not load more than two bullets. It never really has and we have tried different ammo. It is, however, exceptionally accurate.
2. I found a 2005ish NOS 700 CDL in 300 Savage that I may buy.
I have two 40 year old+ Remington 760s that are just badass guns. One is a 30-06 that is currently undefeated against all deer.
Great thread by the way and appreciate the insight on Remington. I hate what they have done to the 336.
When in the mind of THR did the quality really start to go? I ask that for two reasons.
1. I bought a 2002ish 700 in .243 lightly used in 2005. The gun will not load more than two bullets. It never really has and we have tried different ammo. It is, however, exceptionally accurate.
2. I found a 2005ish NOS 700 CDL in 300 Savage that I may buy.
I have two 40 year old+ Remington 760s that are just badass guns. One is a 30-06 that is currently undefeated against all deer.
Great thread by the way and appreciate the insight on Remington. I hate what they have done to the 336.
I think this has a lot to do with it. The bar for budget guns has been lowered far below what a lot of us will tolerate, and Remington isn't very good at keeping an acceptable quality in the lowest price points. I think barnbwt alluded to that a little bit in his post as well. But, to the quoted post, there are still nice product coming out. My BIL bought a $600+ 870 for dove season this year, and that thing is badass. It is smooth as silk, has great weight, great trigger, nice enough stock. Good shotgun.
The same can be said for Winchester. I am a huge 70 fan but have not bought one yet manufactured post 2000. But the two I have held recently were both absolutely beautiful guns. One was a .257 Roberts with a Cabelas stamp on it and the other was some kind of higher grade in 7x57. Both were $1400+, but they both deserved the Winchester 70 stamp.
Look at it like this. A lot of us growing up in the 70s, 80s, and even into the mid nineties started out with Lever Action 30-30s if we were buying it new and on a budget. We had two choices, both cheaper than a 700, 70, Mark V, and the rest. But in the last ten years or so, for a variety of reasons, the new starter budget guns are the same calibers we used to work up too monetarily. They have done it by putting a cheaper action on a crappy stock, cut out any custom work, dropped margin, and succeeded on volume. This has dumbed down the expectations of an average new gun.
7mmstalker
Member
Lifelong Remington fan, and owner of many 700, a few model 7, 1 xp100R from the custom shop, several Marlin leverguns, and one "Marlington" levergun.
To put it short and sweet, They just don't make 'em like they used too"
Like so many companies being run by a board of directors interested in profit and willing to scrifice quality, they are struggling. I've seen Danner boots, Gerber knives and a bunch of others switch their marketing to a two tier product line. One is cheaply made (usually Chinese) junky stuff for the working class consumer, while offering the traditional products at a premium price point.
Seems like a common plan to stay profitable - survive- in the modern world.
The quality of Remington branded products I have purchased lately is somewhere in the middle of this kind of scheme, they are trying to offer a US made product to a consumer that wants a Wal-Mart price. Seems like an impossible goal, but at least the junk is, so far, keeping your neighbor working.
I got a new S&W 686 and was shocked by how rough the action was. That smooth and precision action of an "off the shelf" revolver made a decade or two back is probably gone for good.
To put it short and sweet, They just don't make 'em like they used too"
Like so many companies being run by a board of directors interested in profit and willing to scrifice quality, they are struggling. I've seen Danner boots, Gerber knives and a bunch of others switch their marketing to a two tier product line. One is cheaply made (usually Chinese) junky stuff for the working class consumer, while offering the traditional products at a premium price point.
Seems like a common plan to stay profitable - survive- in the modern world.
The quality of Remington branded products I have purchased lately is somewhere in the middle of this kind of scheme, they are trying to offer a US made product to a consumer that wants a Wal-Mart price. Seems like an impossible goal, but at least the junk is, so far, keeping your neighbor working.
I got a new S&W 686 and was shocked by how rough the action was. That smooth and precision action of an "off the shelf" revolver made a decade or two back is probably gone for good.
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 7,340
"Every time someone I know starts talking about getting a good bolt, the Remington 700 is one of most suggested."
You are also just as likely to be pitched with Tikkas, Savage's, Howa's, and Rugers. The 700 for sure isn't the nicest gun around --hasn't been in some time-- and they aren't even the cheapest option anymore, either. I would agree the 700 is generally a safe bet for a good bolt gun, but I'm not sure I'd argue they are the best option after learning about the alternatives.
Not unlike Colt, they are flat out synonymous with bolt rifles and Fuddery (c'mon, we all know it's true
) so of course their name is always floated when sporting rifles come up.
+1 about their barrel quality. I don't know how, but as poorly wrought as the rest of my R51 was (it still works pretty well, FWIW, but it's about as 'finished' as an SKS), its barrel is among my more accurate autoloaders. My 700 SPS was also more accurate than I, as well (not saying much, but its still true)
TCB
You are also just as likely to be pitched with Tikkas, Savage's, Howa's, and Rugers. The 700 for sure isn't the nicest gun around --hasn't been in some time-- and they aren't even the cheapest option anymore, either. I would agree the 700 is generally a safe bet for a good bolt gun, but I'm not sure I'd argue they are the best option after learning about the alternatives.
Not unlike Colt, they are flat out synonymous with bolt rifles and Fuddery (c'mon, we all know it's true
) so of course their name is always floated when sporting rifles come up.+1 about their barrel quality. I don't know how, but as poorly wrought as the rest of my R51 was (it still works pretty well, FWIW, but it's about as 'finished' as an SKS), its barrel is among my more accurate autoloaders. My 700 SPS was also more accurate than I, as well (not saying much, but its still true)
TCB
The quality of their firearms is dependent on what the workers who make them are encouraged to produce. Like any other company.
But start listing issues that directly relate to higher level management and you get a definite sense of the course they are on.
Freedom Group bought Grizzly, DPMS, Bushmaster and AAC. They are either no longer made or just a rollmark coming off the line from the same plant.
Helped get the 6.8SPC on the road with SAMMI certification, somehow the print is found defective and the round underpowered. So it's kicked to the curb and they steal the .300 Whisper to call their own.
Showed monolithic uppers praised in the gun press but never produced in any major quantity.
The R51.
Bought Marlin now despised as Marlington, although the latest reports from new owners suggest it's turned around.
Has a contract to supply milspec rifles and yet we never see an ad from them to let us know. Maybe they don't want upset their traditional buyers?
Much less the way the 700 trigger debacle is being handled.
Over the last ten years, it's been a bumbling race to fall into another disaster. I'm beginning to think it's being run by the US Govt, not private shareholders expecting profit.
I own a Rem 700 and so far, it's been the worst deer rifle I have ever owned. The gun itself is functional, the premise of what it does simply doesn't fit the job. It's an egotistical anachronism. Cured me of ever trusting any one company to maintain a legacy and deliver on it's promises.
But start listing issues that directly relate to higher level management and you get a definite sense of the course they are on.
Freedom Group bought Grizzly, DPMS, Bushmaster and AAC. They are either no longer made or just a rollmark coming off the line from the same plant.
Helped get the 6.8SPC on the road with SAMMI certification, somehow the print is found defective and the round underpowered. So it's kicked to the curb and they steal the .300 Whisper to call their own.
Showed monolithic uppers praised in the gun press but never produced in any major quantity.
The R51.
Bought Marlin now despised as Marlington, although the latest reports from new owners suggest it's turned around.
Has a contract to supply milspec rifles and yet we never see an ad from them to let us know. Maybe they don't want upset their traditional buyers?
Much less the way the 700 trigger debacle is being handled.
Over the last ten years, it's been a bumbling race to fall into another disaster. I'm beginning to think it's being run by the US Govt, not private shareholders expecting profit.
I own a Rem 700 and so far, it's been the worst deer rifle I have ever owned. The gun itself is functional, the premise of what it does simply doesn't fit the job. It's an egotistical anachronism. Cured me of ever trusting any one company to maintain a legacy and deliver on it's promises.
cammogunner
Member
remington qc is pretty bad and i dont like how they handled them selves with the whole dragging there feet fixing the 700s and then makeing the 770/710 a death trap also makes me angry i think that back when remington was in its prime [not owned by freedom group] they were a really solid rifle company but you never now maybe they will turn it around [but i doubt it]
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 7,340
"Bought Marlin now despised as Marlington"
In Remington's defense, I suspect that Corporate had no idea what kind of shape Marlin was in. Possibly to the point of misrepresentation. Or do we really think Marlin told their soon-to-be bosses at the contract negotiation that their machinery was ancient, clapped out, not even being held together with bailing wire anymore, and that the workforce itself was not in much better shape. And that both were irreplaceable. Or that there were no blueprints or documentation for any of their most popular and widely made models of firearms? I don't think any buyer would have expected the mismanagement to have been anything approaching the state Marlin was in at the time of the buy.
"Over the last ten years, it's been a bumbling race to fall into another disaster. I'm beginning to think it's being run by the US Govt, not private shareholders expecting profit."
I think you mean Colt. All these not-much-left-but-a-name companies need to keep piling into each other in the hopes that add up to one competent gun maker, then bite the big one. History/laurels by themselves seem to be even less useful in the firearms industry than others.
It's odd; Ruger seems to have had many of the highs/lows/tribulations of any of the other American makers, and yet they've remained solvent the whole time. It seems like the only differing factor is their avoidance of military contracts for the most part (though I'm sure not for lack of trying), which may have prevented them from recklessly going into debt in order to tool up for them like we all know Colt, Remington, Winchester, and most of the others in trouble did/are. After all, how many times in history has the US embarked on some massive order, only to renege when the war ended?
TCB
In Remington's defense, I suspect that Corporate had no idea what kind of shape Marlin was in. Possibly to the point of misrepresentation. Or do we really think Marlin told their soon-to-be bosses at the contract negotiation that their machinery was ancient, clapped out, not even being held together with bailing wire anymore, and that the workforce itself was not in much better shape. And that both were irreplaceable. Or that there were no blueprints or documentation for any of their most popular and widely made models of firearms? I don't think any buyer would have expected the mismanagement to have been anything approaching the state Marlin was in at the time of the buy.
"Over the last ten years, it's been a bumbling race to fall into another disaster. I'm beginning to think it's being run by the US Govt, not private shareholders expecting profit."
I think you mean Colt
. All these not-much-left-but-a-name companies need to keep piling into each other in the hopes that add up to one competent gun maker, then bite the big one. History/laurels by themselves seem to be even less useful in the firearms industry than others.It's odd; Ruger seems to have had many of the highs/lows/tribulations of any of the other American makers, and yet they've remained solvent the whole time. It seems like the only differing factor is their avoidance of military contracts for the most part (though I'm sure not for lack of trying), which may have prevented them from recklessly going into debt in order to tool up for them like we all know Colt, Remington, Winchester, and most of the others in trouble did/are. After all, how many times in history has the US embarked on some massive order, only to renege when the war ended?
TCB
Tommygunn
Member
Barnbwt; here in N. Alabama we are all rejoicing that Remington is starting up a new facility. A nice sweet-heart deal with corporate taxes, and supposedly it will mean jobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobsjobs (to quote a D.C. politician) here in the Tennessee Valley.
And if it works out that will be great....
But your post makes me wonder if our political bigwigs had any idea what shape REMINGTON is in.
Hey, I HOPE it works... Really. But I'm just worrying, that's all. Wondering ....worrying ...
Great old classic name in firearms ...a shame what's been done to it!
Flatbush Harry
Member
I have bought a number of Rem 700 SPSs (Varmint in .308 and .223) and a Sporter (.308) as well as a Rem 700 5R in the last 5 years. I tend to regard them as good barreled actions with canoe paddle stocks, easily replaced stocks and triggers and useful platforms for both precision and hunting rifles. I get a B&C Medalist stock, free-float the barrel, skim bed the action, put in a Timney 510 trigger (I order from Timney...excellent customer service and they set you desired pull weight at the factory), add a purpose chosen scope mounted with appropriate mounts (I happen to like Leupy STD bases and rings because you can zero the windage through external adjustment without using any of the scope’s adjustment) and, lo and behold, have a good <0.75 MOA shooter for not so much.
I like the M700 CDL SF models but will build my own as above.
I think Remington has embarassed themselves in recent years with poorer QC, their trigger fiasco, the R51 fiasco and generally poorer customer service. However, their barreled actions are generally excellent and, with appropriate touch ups as I describe, can yield an excellent rifle.
I would also say that most people have unrealistic expectations of most firearms. When I bought my first Colt 1911, I followed the wisdom of the day (late ‘60s-early ‘70s): add sights (BoMar, Heinie and an appropriate front sight), get a trigger job from a competent ‘smith, polish feed ramp, get some useful grips (Pachmayr), add Wilson Shock absorber to recoil spring guide, polish rails, change out Mk IV, ser. ’70 collet bushing and replace with solid bushing, add Commander extractor and lower ejection slot. These mods turned an unreliable gun into a completely reliable one. Nothing wrong with tuning for a purpose...ask any car guy.
I have owned many firearms over the last 62 years and all of them could shoot as well or better than me. Rem has been no different. I’m currently contemplating getting another SPS to turn into a either a .260 Rem or 6.5x55SE for long-range precision shooting...lots of excellent barrels and ‘smiths out there and I’ve got a nice Vortex Viper PST scope on another SPS-V that can share time.
YMMV, but mine rarely does,
FH
I like the M700 CDL SF models but will build my own as above.
I think Remington has embarassed themselves in recent years with poorer QC, their trigger fiasco, the R51 fiasco and generally poorer customer service. However, their barreled actions are generally excellent and, with appropriate touch ups as I describe, can yield an excellent rifle.
I would also say that most people have unrealistic expectations of most firearms. When I bought my first Colt 1911, I followed the wisdom of the day (late ‘60s-early ‘70s): add sights (BoMar, Heinie and an appropriate front sight), get a trigger job from a competent ‘smith, polish feed ramp, get some useful grips (Pachmayr), add Wilson Shock absorber to recoil spring guide, polish rails, change out Mk IV, ser. ’70 collet bushing and replace with solid bushing, add Commander extractor and lower ejection slot. These mods turned an unreliable gun into a completely reliable one. Nothing wrong with tuning for a purpose...ask any car guy.
I have owned many firearms over the last 62 years and all of them could shoot as well or better than me. Rem has been no different. I’m currently contemplating getting another SPS to turn into a either a .260 Rem or 6.5x55SE for long-range precision shooting...lots of excellent barrels and ‘smiths out there and I’ve got a nice Vortex Viper PST scope on another SPS-V that can share time.
YMMV, but mine rarely does,
FH
Most Remingtons still work just fine. The 700's are still accurate, and the 870's are still built like a tank. Both are more labor intensive (expensive) to build than similar offerings from the competition. Fit and finish has really declined in the last few years, and an awful lot of lemons make it past quality control. IMO they need to concentrate on bringing the quality level of their bread and butter firearms up to where it should be instead of introducing more and more variations and new models.
Fella's;
Remington's been molesting Fido for a very long time. However, in the past they were solvent enough to weather those gaffes, much as Ford did Edsel. Now, as has been stated, they are not their own master, Freedom Group owns them. But the termites have been in the building since the 70's that I know of. Witness the 5mm Remington disaster and the customer non-support that followed. I was a victim of that debacle, and I shed no tears for the Ogres Of Ilion now. They didn't get that epithet just pinned on them for the helluvit, they earned it.
900F
Remington's been molesting Fido for a very long time. However, in the past they were solvent enough to weather those gaffes, much as Ford did Edsel. Now, as has been stated, they are not their own master, Freedom Group owns them. But the termites have been in the building since the 70's that I know of. Witness the 5mm Remington disaster and the customer non-support that followed. I was a victim of that debacle, and I shed no tears for the Ogres Of Ilion now. They didn't get that epithet just pinned on them for the helluvit, they earned it.
900F
OP
OP
txcookie
Member
I just don't get it but the again my experience is with cdl rifles. Their fit a finish have been excellent. Smooth action and both print .5 inches out the box. Now if I get my kids a 700 adl I fully expect there to be a little less but I'm paying less than 1.5 the price.
- Status
