1BLINDREF
Member
...
What's wrong with Sigs???
- Thread starter ajl2121
- Start date
- Status
mljdeckard
Member
I've never owned a Sig, but it's not because there is anything wrong with them. (A 1911 fits me better.)
As far as I'm concerned it's ONLY a price issue between Sig and Glock, and price should not be the decisive factor when picking YOUR PERSONAL BEST sidearm. I think it's more likely that the store just didn't happen to have one at the time, and the guy behind the counter is a brand snob who believes everything he hears from every single one of his customers.
As far as I'm concerned it's ONLY a price issue between Sig and Glock, and price should not be the decisive factor when picking YOUR PERSONAL BEST sidearm. I think it's more likely that the store just didn't happen to have one at the time, and the guy behind the counter is a brand snob who believes everything he hears from every single one of his customers.
atblis
Member
Rental Range
Rental range guns take a pounding. The average firearm owner might fire what? 10,000 rounds in their life through a single pistol (if that even).
It might be that SIGs do in fact break more often than something like let's say a Glock or a Ruger, but we're talking about tens and tens of thousands of rounds probably (sometimes 100s). So while your SIG has never failed in the 500 rounds you've fired through it, that's nothing.
It could also be that the people at the range like shooting the SIGs, so it might seem that they break more often in terms of time, but not in terms of rounds fired.
I think most people would be surprised by what guns actually prove most durable in the long wrong (It ain't H&K BTW). The barrels, slides, and frames might be uber teutonically tough, but they aren't much good if the rest of the gun doesn't work.
Rental range guns take a pounding. The average firearm owner might fire what? 10,000 rounds in their life through a single pistol (if that even).
It might be that SIGs do in fact break more often than something like let's say a Glock or a Ruger, but we're talking about tens and tens of thousands of rounds probably (sometimes 100s). So while your SIG has never failed in the 500 rounds you've fired through it, that's nothing.
It could also be that the people at the range like shooting the SIGs, so it might seem that they break more often in terms of time, but not in terms of rounds fired.
I think most people would be surprised by what guns actually prove most durable in the long wrong (It ain't H&K BTW). The barrels, slides, and frames might be uber teutonically tough, but they aren't much good if the rest of the gun doesn't work.
Last edited:
atblis
Member
Sure
Not really, because range guns are at the extreme end of the spectrum, and I don't feel like arguing with people about it (50 posts of "I've fired 600 rounds through my XXXXXXX and I've never had a problem"). There's nothing wrong with SIGs. I am just trying to point out that the shop owner in the original post might not be as full of it as some would like to think as rental guns are used differently than the average firearm.
.
Not really, because range guns are at the extreme end of the spectrum, and I don't feel like arguing with people about it (50 posts of "I've fired 600 rounds through my XXXXXXX and I've never had a problem"). There's nothing wrong with SIGs. I am just trying to point out that the shop owner in the original post might not be as full of it as some would like to think as rental guns are used differently than the average firearm.
.
Last edited:
Tom Fury
Member
If you shoot a mime...
A mime is a terrible thing to waste...(Couldn't help it...Anyone seen a glass box around here)? Cheers, TF
No, but he carries a Hush Puppy...
A mime is a terrible thing to waste...(Couldn't help it...Anyone seen a glass box around here)? Cheers, TF
No, but he carries a Hush Puppy...
decocker
"Maybe I should drive a bit farther to try out the Sig...I was wondering with the DA/SA version, does it operate similar to the HK USP? I like the decocker w/ safety function."
Apologies if someone else already answered this question:
DA/SA Sigs are decock only, unlike say Beretta or Ruger p-series pistols. There's no manual safety. Also, the controls are different from other decock only systems, in that the slide lock lever is further back on the frame, close to where the safety would be on a 1911, and the decocking lever is forward, where the slide lock would be on most autos. It's a slightly funky system, but it's accurate, durable, and reliable, and IMO has pretty good ergonomics/"shootability." My favorite gun is my Sig 220 carry, it's my only Sig so far but I hope to add more to the collection.
I don't like the idea of a decock+safety, much prefer to have one or the other because I think a long and heavy first pull PLUS a manual safety to disengage puts too many obstacles in the way of a fast accurate first shot. I would carry a Beretta with the safety off, for instance, so as not to have to fumble with a safety when drawing the gun.
Sig also makes a DAK "double action only" trigger that is supposed to be really good, and they make single action pistols too.
If you are really devoted to the idea of decocker + manual safety, Beretta's M9/92FS is very reliable, and Ruger P series autos are durable, no nonsense pistols (I like the stainless P90 especially.) Either one of these guns are bargains at half the cost of a comparable Sig.
"Maybe I should drive a bit farther to try out the Sig...I was wondering with the DA/SA version, does it operate similar to the HK USP? I like the decocker w/ safety function."
Apologies if someone else already answered this question:
DA/SA Sigs are decock only, unlike say Beretta or Ruger p-series pistols. There's no manual safety. Also, the controls are different from other decock only systems, in that the slide lock lever is further back on the frame, close to where the safety would be on a 1911, and the decocking lever is forward, where the slide lock would be on most autos. It's a slightly funky system, but it's accurate, durable, and reliable, and IMO has pretty good ergonomics/"shootability." My favorite gun is my Sig 220 carry, it's my only Sig so far but I hope to add more to the collection.
I don't like the idea of a decock+safety, much prefer to have one or the other because I think a long and heavy first pull PLUS a manual safety to disengage puts too many obstacles in the way of a fast accurate first shot. I would carry a Beretta with the safety off, for instance, so as not to have to fumble with a safety when drawing the gun.
Sig also makes a DAK "double action only" trigger that is supposed to be really good, and they make single action pistols too.
If you are really devoted to the idea of decocker + manual safety, Beretta's M9/92FS is very reliable, and Ruger P series autos are durable, no nonsense pistols (I like the stainless P90 especially.) Either one of these guns are bargains at half the cost of a comparable Sig.
never_summer
Member
ive got two sigs and they are good guns. You can tell the difference in the quality of my west german and my new p226. Ive never shot a glock so i cant compare it to that. My sig is 16 yrs old and has many rounds thru it, plan on taking it to the range tommorrow. Only problem i have with it is the slide release, i keep putting my thumb on it like its my 1911 and it never locks back 
oh well
oh well
gc70
Member
I tend to agree with the observations that ranges tend to have few high-dollar rental guns.
I have three P-series Sigs, the least used of which is nearing 3,000 rounds. I have not had any parts breakage or even any feeding or extraction problems with any of the Sigs. My P226-ST did have a gritty trigger pull when I bought it, but Sig smoothed the action parts under warranty (turnaround in less than a week). Notwithstanding their high quality, I buy Sigs because their frame-mounted decockers work better for me than any other decocker design.
The only problem I have experienced with Sigs is paying the high prices for new ones.
My son had a polymer Sig; it had an excellent trigger and typical Sig quality without the typical Sig price.
I have three P-series Sigs, the least used of which is nearing 3,000 rounds. I have not had any parts breakage or even any feeding or extraction problems with any of the Sigs. My P226-ST did have a gritty trigger pull when I bought it, but Sig smoothed the action parts under warranty (turnaround in less than a week). Notwithstanding their high quality, I buy Sigs because their frame-mounted decockers work better for me than any other decocker design.
The only problem I have experienced with Sigs is paying the high prices for new ones.
My son had a polymer Sig; it had an excellent trigger and typical Sig quality without the typical Sig price.
Lonestar49
Member
Quote: just happen to own a Sig P200 st,and i'm madly,madly in love with it !
She has a stout recoil,and i pity the fool who gets whacked with a Doubletap
Gold Dot Hollow Point if they try to harm my family and i .
---------------------------
...
Sounds/appears like you're a bit anxious to feed your hunger for the moment. But can you direct me to a link that shows a Sig P200 st. I couldn't locate that model at Sigs sight. Must be before my time.
LS
She has a stout recoil,and i pity the fool who gets whacked with a Doubletap
Gold Dot Hollow Point if they try to harm my family and i .
---------------------------
...
Sounds/appears like you're a bit anxious to feed your hunger for the moment. But can you direct me to a link that shows a Sig P200 st. I couldn't locate that model at Sigs sight. Must be before my time.
LS
SouthpawShootr
Member
Horse manure. Sheer gun-snobbery from P-series purists. I have 2 SigPros and they have been great. Initially I had trouble reliability with my 9mm, but I'm convinced that preservative they coat the mags with was the culprit. That stuff is awful.
gandog56
Member
They're not Glocks... 
And that's a GOOD thing. I never felt a Glock that felt comfortable in my hand. A Sig feels like it's a part of my hand.
And that's a GOOD thing. I never felt a Glock that felt comfortable in my hand. A Sig feels like it's a part of my hand.
lee n. field
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 4,321
They're ugly?
I find at times Sig owners are more die hard than Glock owners.
To me Sigs are very reliable, but big & heavy and extremely expensive for what you get.They remind me of a refined version of Rugers P series, just at 3X the price. I would recommend a Ruger or a Sig as good weapons, but they are guns that frankly I can't get excited over.
Some gunshop don't carry stuff they cannot sell, and if no one is buying Sigs then that is why. Some shops are like car dealerships, they rather you buy what they have in stock, and do not want you to special order. One shop I go to just started to carry Sigs, the owner told me that it is easier to move Glocks, XDs, 1911, and revolvers. Sigs are starting to get a little more popular with "first time" buyers, but they still don't go flying of the shelves. Another uber tactical shop in a ritzy area of town that I go to has a big display case of Sigs and Hk products and they reluctantly started carrying Kel Tec and Taurus. It is all about moving product.
As for the range issue, almost every part of a Glock with the exception of the barrel, grip and slide can be bought for less than $15. Revolvers need little maintenance, and I'm assuming range owners take advantage of Springfield and Taurus's Lifetime warranty. A fleet of Mercedes will need to be maintained the same as a fleet of Fords. Intial cost plus Parts cost more with Sigs so overall Sigs will cost the range more money to operate.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
The "classic" P-series (P220, P226, P228 and so on) are some of the finest, most accurate and reliable pistols made. I have one, a 1995 P228, and once owned a P220 and P239. All have functioned perfectly right out of the box. Fat grip/double-action pistols are just too large for my hands, however (while the P239 was too small), and I shoot better with short-stroke DAOs like the GLOCK and now the S&W M&P, or pure SAs like the 1911.
Where SIG (actually Sigarms) has gone awry is straying excessively and often unsuccessfully from their bread-and-butter, core line of pistols. The problems with the early GSR (a 1911 put together from other makers' components) are pretty well documented. The newer "Revolution" 1911s are supposed to be better, but I guess my Revolution Carry wasn't one of them. I gave it back to the dealer (who has an in-house gunsmith) to troubleshoot for feeding problems (out of over 500 rounds it has only gotten through one box of cartridges without a misfeed) after not getting a reply from Sigarms' CS. Depending on how it goes, I may or may not buy another Sigarms product.
Where SIG (actually Sigarms) has gone awry is straying excessively and often unsuccessfully from their bread-and-butter, core line of pistols. The problems with the early GSR (a 1911 put together from other makers' components) are pretty well documented. The newer "Revolution" 1911s are supposed to be better, but I guess my Revolution Carry wasn't one of them. I gave it back to the dealer (who has an in-house gunsmith) to troubleshoot for feeding problems (out of over 500 rounds it has only gotten through one box of cartridges without a misfeed) after not getting a reply from Sigarms' CS. Depending on how it goes, I may or may not buy another Sigarms product.
SAG0282
Member
sigdude; That one post of your's was a bit too Chuck Bronson for me. Work on it.
As to the OP, he's so full of crap. All SIGs are very robust, as robust if not more so than anything on the market. My SIG Pro is easily north of 6k rounds and still shoots and feels new. I've also over the years had 3 different P226s and a P228 and they're unbeatable. The p226 is and always will be my overall favorite combat handgun.
As to the OP, he's so full of crap. All SIGs are very robust, as robust if not more so than anything on the market. My SIG Pro is easily north of 6k rounds and still shoots and feels new. I've also over the years had 3 different P226s and a P228 and they're unbeatable. The p226 is and always will be my overall favorite combat handgun.
atblis
Member
Here we go!
There are too many guns to be that loyal to a single brand. SIGs are nice, but they aren't the answer to everything.
You're forgettig about the Mosquito. I wouldn't call that thing robust
That proves nothing as I believe they were talking about the absence of SIGs in the rental fleet. 6k rounds is nothing.
There are too many guns to be that loyal to a single brand. SIGs are nice, but they aren't the answer to everything.
Seven For Sure
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
- Messages
- 437
They're ugly (opinion)
They rust (fact)
They rust (fact)
atblis
Member
What?
What are you basing that on?
Because they should be being expensive and in theory German made and all?
Because you read it in [insert favorite gun rag] with the full page SIG add on the back cover?
Because your fellow internet buddies over at sigsrockmyworld.com told you so?
Because you own one?
Are they any more "robust" than Rugers?
Are they any more "robust" than Glocks?
Are they any more "robust" than good 1911s?
Are they any more "robust" than XDs?
Are they any more "robust" than CZs?
etc. etc.
I would like to see somebody take a
Glock 17
CZ 75B
92FS
P226
Ruger whatever their 9mm is
Springfield XD
HK USP
and shoot them till a major component fails, keeping track of breakage and replacing small parts as needed. Let's say clean every 1000 rounds. Some of those guns should last past 100k.
I think SIGs are fine firearms and all, but I would avoid making assertions that have no basis in fact. I would wager that the SIG does not end up at the top of the heap when it is all said and done.
Problem is. 100k of 9x19 at 5.00/box comes out to $10,000.
Anybody got the reports from the M9 trials?
What are you basing that on?
Because they should be being expensive and in theory German made and all?
Because you read it in [insert favorite gun rag] with the full page SIG add on the back cover?
Because your fellow internet buddies over at sigsrockmyworld.com told you so?
Because you own one?
Are they any more "robust" than Rugers?
Are they any more "robust" than Glocks?
Are they any more "robust" than good 1911s?
Are they any more "robust" than XDs?
Are they any more "robust" than CZs?
etc. etc.
I would like to see somebody take a
Glock 17
CZ 75B
92FS
P226
Ruger whatever their 9mm is
Springfield XD
HK USP
and shoot them till a major component fails, keeping track of breakage and replacing small parts as needed. Let's say clean every 1000 rounds. Some of those guns should last past 100k.
I think SIGs are fine firearms and all, but I would avoid making assertions that have no basis in fact. I would wager that the SIG does not end up at the top of the heap when it is all said and done.
Problem is. 100k of 9x19 at 5.00/box comes out to $10,000.
Anybody got the reports from the M9 trials?
SniperStraz
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2006
- Messages
- 871
Seven For Sure, is it really fact that they all rust, or did you just keep yours in a bucket of water off the coast of Fla. for ten years? To my knowledge newer model P series are gaining more and more popularity with naval commandos due to fact that they don't rust and are not easily damaged by salt water. Can anyone shine some light on that issue with reference to a reliable source?
atblis
Member
Rust
They used to have some problems with the pins rusting, and I think the slide finish being fragile. I believe that has been corrected though.
They used to have some problems with the pins rusting, and I think the slide finish being fragile. I believe that has been corrected though.
Black Knight
Member
If you worry that they break to easily, don't. I know of at least two federal agencies that issue SIGs to their agents. Those are the Secret Service and the Federal Air Marshals. If they were not up to par they would not be trusting the life of the President or the lives of those on airlines with them. My own SigPro 2340 is top notch.
- Status
