When is it time to give up our guns (age)?

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As my wife's father got closer to the end of his life, he still had an old military rifle that he cherished, and a very old commercial 1911. After our range trips, in which I drove, I would always make sure we got home really late, so I could "clean" his two firearms for him. I simply removed the firing pins and kept them until we would get ready for the next outing. When he would wake up in the morning, he could look up in his room and see the polished guns resting in the nice glass case his grandchildren built, and he was very happy. Because he did not rely on those for protection (we took care of all that), everything worked out well. One day he woke early and wanted to hold his firearms, and he did. At that point he gave one to each grandchild, saying he was getting too far along to shoot anymore. He passed late that evening peacefully with the whole family by his side. We were truly blessed to have him in our lives.
 
Got to eat lunch with my uncle today, and he talked about going out to the range just a couple weeks ago. He's 84. He can still probably outshoot me. He has a pro-2A bumper sticker right next to his Korean War veteran sticker.

With the possible exception of my aunt, he has the only say on when he gives up his guns.

And it should stay that way.
 
My mother-in-law was in narcotic withdrawal because she was "too smart" to use a colored pill box system, which would have reminded her which pill was needed, on which days.
That was when my wife make the hard decision to hide the car driven by her parents, drive it to Memphis and sell it.

Living in a retirement complex (the A.R.C. in San Antonio) made a car unnecessary.

Therefore, for people who live where guns are Not prohibited, when they don't have a clear head or system to take their medications, or to safely operate a car (or drive on an errand) or be rational, they should no longer have access to a gun.
 
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This is an interesting thread. I have been thinking about this very issue lately. I am only 61 but have already started to show my wife where everything is at. Between the reloading gear, boxes, guns, ammo and just plain old parts there is a bunch of it. Wanted her to know where locks, papers and boxes were just in case. I have two children and a wife of nearly 41 years. My kids both shoot but do not own their own guns but both want to. Wife has her own and shoots occasionally. I think the conversation about when to take them needs to occur now when things are clear and everyone understands. I figure when the time comes and I am not thinking real clear, there won't need to be a big discussion, the decision should already be made and I will have given everyone the green light. This is an unpleasant subject but one that needs to be talked about openly with the kids and possibly grandkids if you have them. A few people who are in the know, and know the person well enough to make the decision. I can easily see a time not too many years from now where I won't want to shoot as often but I will want to get them out, clean them, handle them and fondle them all day long. The trick will be at what point do I become the dangerous link between having all of this stuff around and not being able to handle it.

For me this goes well beyond firearms but to reloading with components and ammo. I have collect both of these the past few years and I am getting close to the point where I will never need to buy a single bullet or more powder. I don't think I can shoot enough to use it all up!

Some of this is the peril of just having "stuff." Too many worldly possessions cause us problems eventually.
 
I am 71, own over 30 handguns and some long guns to include a fully tricked out AR15 and a 12 gage riot gun. I have started giving guns to my kids and grand kids. I still carry daily and hope I will know when to quit. I have a son who is a police officer and he will know when I should give up my guns, and I think I will listen to him. If I don't, I have faith he will take them from me by force if necessary.
 
rugerman said:
I have another problem in this same area. Due to arthritis (hands & back) I can no longer shoot like I used to. So I have decided to trim down my gun collection, mostly by large caliber handguns since they hurt my hands to shoot them. I talked to my family and my son wants a couple of them and my wife has picked out her favorites, and I have a few that I will keep because they mean a lot to me. The problem comes with the ammo. I am a reloader, have been since I was a kid so all the ammo that I have (except 22) is stuff that I loaded and worked up favorite loads for those firearms. I also have a lot of components and powder (stocked up when things started to get tight). So if I sell the guns what do I do with the ammo that will then be worthless to me? I know that the old saying is don't shoot any reloads but your own, so do I just trash them? I don't have to sell but I would like to see them in the hands of someone who will used and enjoy them, with out breaking the law. Any help appreciated.
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If it were me I would give the ammo to my child that I gave the guns too. My 14 year old son has never shot a center fire round(except shotgun) that I didn't handload.

Every round my father has fired in the last ten years or so came from me. I would never give my loads to a stranger, of sell them, but your wife or child? I wouldn't hesitate.
 
splithoof said:
As my wife's father got closer to the end of his life, he still had an old military rifle that he cherished, and a very old commercial 1911. After our range trips, in which I drove, I would always make sure we got home really late, so I could "clean" his two firearms for him. I simply removed the firing pins and kept them until we would get ready for the next outing. When he would wake up in the morning, he could look up in his room and see the polished guns resting in the nice glass case his grandchildren built, and he was very happy. Because he did not rely on those for protection (we took care of all that), everything worked out well. One day he woke early and wanted to hold his firearms, and he did. At that point he gave one to each grandchild, saying he was getting too far along to shoot anymore. He passed late that evening peacefully with the whole family by his side. We were truly blessed to have him in our lives.
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I firmly believe you have no right to commit such a deception. If your family felt he had no business with them, fine, take them away. Trickery in such a way shows a lack of respect in my opinion.
 
It's totally a by the case basis. I know a guy who is 91, looks 71, has a 11 year old son (Yes, verified by DNA, just like on Maury!), and he is fine mentally and he does have a gun (A .25 Beretta Jetfire), locked up of course, and he has already told his wife (much younger, obviously) that if he shows any signs of any mental deterioration, to just take the gun and give it to his son, she doesn't need to tell him. The way he's going, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. He jumps out of a chair like he's in high school, and the only thing he's changed due to age is he no longer drives at night.

On the other hand, I had a neighbor who basically went insane over a year or so. It's a long story, but he became obsessed with the idea that I was walking my dog over to his yard and "making deposits", when in reality, the "deposits" were of a size (Huge!) that could not have possibly come from my 55 pound dog. At first, his confronting and accusing me was amusing, even though the cops were involved after he started chasing me with his car (Not trying to hit us, but pulling up in front of us and screaming), but one day, he had his .22 rifle out on the kitchen table cleaning it, while ranting about me and my dog by name. His wife called the police, who took the gun and notified me about it. They had looked the house over and not found another gun, but he did have a couple of newish boxes of .38 special ammo. The police told me to "be careful" as he was convinced the police and I were "In cahoots" to well, make deposits in his yard. Thinking about this still makes me laugh. A this point, his wife called their daughter and they had him examined and he was diagnosed as quite demented and soon ended up in one of the local "memory units", where, until he got to the point he was unable to walk any more, he was very "agitated" and caused a lot of problems. His amazing resemblance to the actor who played "Goldfinger" made the whole thing just very strange from the start.
 
Huskerguy said:
This is an interesting thread. I have been thinking about this very issue lately. I am only 61 but have already started to show my wife where everything is at. Between the reloading gear, boxes, guns, ammo and just plain old parts there is a bunch of it. Wanted her to know where locks, papers and boxes were just in case. I have two children and a wife of nearly 41 years. My kids both shoot but do not own their own guns but both want to. Wife has her own and shoots occasionally. I think the conversation about when to take them needs to occur now when things are clear and everyone understands. I figure when the time comes and I am not thinking real clear, there won't need to be a big discussion, the decision should already be made and I will have given everyone the green light. This is an unpleasant subject but one that needs to be talked about openly with the kids and possibly grandkids if you have them. A few people who are in the know, and know the person well enough to make the decision. I can easily see a time not too many years from now where I won't want to shoot as often but I will want to get them out, clean them, handle them and fondle them all day long. The trick will be at what point do I become the dangerous link between having all of this stuff around and not being able to handle it.

For me this goes well beyond firearms but to reloading with components and ammo. I have collect both of these the past few years and I am getting close to the point where I will never need to buy a single bullet or more powder. I don't think I can shoot enough to use it all up!

Some of this is the peril of just having "stuff." Too many worldly possessions cause us problems eventually.
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Spot on, brother! I, too, am 61; and have inadvertently accumulated way, way too much "stuff" during my tenure on earth. It was never a matter of greed, but interest. Compelling interest, that extends from guns to cars to airplanes to motorcycles to trains and other cool stuff we geezers have grown to love and appreciate. Did I mention that I love tools?

We've recently done an extensive (not to mention expensive) remodel on our home from basement to rooftop, and I was aghast to see what I've accumulated. So I've been getting rid of it in droves … and it's been liberating! I've become a slave to my stuff, always maintaining and seldom enjoying. I caution my adult kids about falling into the same trap. Fortunately they do not share my compulsions, and I do not want to leave my mess for them to clean up when I kick the bucket. Thoreau was right: If a man builds a barn, then the barn becomes his prison.

I want to enjoy my 70's and 80's to the greatest extent possible, so I'm thinning the herd a bit while I'm still "young." For every firearm I acquire I'm liquidating two. I've been gradually ridding myself of excess motorcycles and cars as well, interested more in the buyer's motivation and appreciation rather than cash value. No regrets.

With apologies for carrying on like this,

SleazyRider
 
At 78 years old I look at the hunting, fishing, camping, and other stuff I have collected and used over the years. I recall the good times I v had getting and using it. Each firearm , fishing rod, saddle, back pack and other stuff has its own story. I v stopped big game hunting a few years and no longer can fish the trout streams but I still can shoot prairie dogs all year long and fish lakes. I have made an inventory list so I can sell it all at an auction some day. I to wonder when I should have the auction .
 
I've seen old guys looking at handguns, who's hands were shaking so badly, there's no way they could hit an intended target. That could be a reasonable criteria.
 
With apologies for carrying on like this,
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Apologize for sharing wisdom?
That is silly.

Every thought and story here is priceless.
I appreciate every experience shared and thought provided.
I never expected this thread to turn up such insight and human emotions.
Amazing is all I can think of when reading all of these posts.
 
Huskerguy,

Thank you for your candid thoughts.

I am battling a serious disease that is eventually going to win. (Doc says I probably have 10 years it we catch problems soon enough). Unfortunately my wife and children are in strong denial about the fact it may change quickly for the worse. While my memory will remain intact it is very difficult to get them to accept the truth.

Later this week all of my kids will be home (all live out of state) and I plan on showing the guns and how to determine their value should they decide to sell them and all of my reloading stuff.

It is going to be very painful but I know I will rest easier after our meeting.
 
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Sorry for your issues BSA but you are taking a very rational approach to the inevitable. I have had two friends with rather large collections suffer a stroke at 65 and 77 years old. The guns can be an issue. All of us think everything we own is worth far more than someone with cash in their hand will give us.

On the inside of our safe I have the names of people I know that would handle the sale of my guns at a fair price. I also have listed the value of thousands of primers, powder, bullets, and holsters that could be sold separately for a much greater return than some bulk "reloading stuff" sale would bring.

Carefully catalog your items so in case of a unexpected incapacitation of the owner, someone can make decisions for disposal based on facts rather than emotion.

Good luck to you sir.
 
I'm 71, still going to the range regularly, and still riding my motorcycle as often as the weather allows. I carry every day and while I know that my hands are not as rock steady as they once were, and my vision is not perfect, I am completely able and desiring to keep my guns. Unless a court adjudicates me as incompetent, the decisions regarding guns and driving are MINE to make, not my children's, not my wife's and certainly not my doctor.

I can imagine a time will come when I have to stop riding my motorcycle, but then I might switch to a trike. I also might want to sell or give away many of my guns, but until I am truly incapable of taking care of myself I assume I will have a gun in my home for self defense, and for my own self respect. I might end up with a 22LR as the only handgun that I can comfortably shoot at some future time, but a 22 is better than a sharp stick.

I was lucky with my Mom, who voluntarily stopped driving when she reached 95 and had a few minor fender benders. She also made the decision to move into a nursing home, recognizing that she could no longer live alone safely. She never had to face the indignity of her children or anyone else taking away her rights against her will or forcing her to do anything she wasn't ready to do. She's 99 now and rapidly losing her cognitive abilities, but we are still not forcing her to do anything. I hope my children have the same respect for me that I show to my Mom.
 
Ijnowell thanks for the reply. I under stand your reply but I'm not talking about 10 or 20 rounds of ammo, we're looking at a case or 12 ga, ditto on 20 ga, several 100 44mag, 41mag, 357, 45 long colt , 1000's of 9mm, several 100 380, 100 45/70 and 30-30,etc. also enough components (brass, primers, powder & bullets) to do it all again, not to mention the dies, presses (center fire & shotshell) now do you see my problem? Its good to someone, but how do I get it to them with out putting them or myself in a bad position legally.
 
If they are still very much aware of who is who and what day it is, but there is a chance they could be forgetful and leave a gun out when grandkids visit, maybe a choice you could give them is to clean and store their guns at your own house, and offer to drive them to a quiet range when they want to shoot their guns? They still get the joy of shooting but without the hassle of cleaning or storing them.
 
ljnowell said:
I firmly believe you have no right to commit such a deception. If your family felt he had no business with them, fine, take them away. Trickery in such a way shows a lack of respect in my opinion.
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You are of course entitled to your opinion, but for our particular circumstances, and in consideration of his mental capacity and physical condition I stand behind our actions. It worked out well for all involved, and provided a way for him to still enjoy some of his firearms. It afforded us peace of mind, with lessened chances of potential tragedy. To just take them away would have been harsh. He was at peace in his circumstances.
 
rugerman said:
Ijnowell thanks for the reply. I under stand your reply but I'm not talking about 10 or 20 rounds of ammo, we're looking at a case or 12 ga, ditto on 20 ga, several 100 44mag, 41mag, 357, 45 long colt , 1000's of 9mm, several 100 380, 100 45/70 and 30-30,etc. also enough components (brass, primers, powder & bullets) to do it all again, not to mention the dies, presses (center fire & shotshell) now do you see my problem? Its good to someone, but how do I get it to them with out putting them or myself in a bad position legally.
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I wouldn't worry about giving the ammo to the child who received the gun. As far as the reloading equipment, possibly sell it at a gun show or in the for sale forum on this or another board.
 
That would be a difficult bridge to cross but should an elderly family member become unsafe around firearms I think I would simply remove the firing pin/main spring from the gun rather than make a big issue out of it.
 
I guess this may say more about my extended family than anything else, but in my observation those most likely to think action is needed (take them away, hide them, disable them, whatever) are generally the least equipped to be making such decisions. I think pulling a firing pin or otherwise disabling a gun is at best silly (are you really afraid your loving father-in-law is going to turn zombie and wander the house shooting his family?) and at worst dangerous (a guy with a rifle can commit suicide-by-cop without a firing pin...heck, you don't even need a rifle). Taking/hiding them is just theft.

I think 99.999% of the time the person is capable of making a good decision on their own, even when they are in poor health. It may take starting the conversation, as I did with my father, but it should be a choice made, not an issue forced. In my case my dad made some choices I wasn't particularly happy about, but that's just because I had a conflict of interests (I wanted all his guns for myself). They were not bad decisions. I corrected that somewhat by buying him an Uberti 1862 clone (cap & ball), a gun he had always spoken of admiringly. Sadly, he only got to shoot one cylinder out of it due to his health, but it was his and now it is mine.

If a person honestly can't (isn't competent to) make those decisions, it should fall to those he or she has asked (by drafting powers of attorney, medical power of attorney, etc) to step in. That may or may not be family. If they haven't set that up, I think probably a court (and not the family alone) should be involved, at least to appoint a caregiver who makes those decisions. I also think the courts should err on the side of accepting people as competent even when the family disagrees.

Beyond that, I think guns are generally a very small part of a much bigger picture. What about pets? I had an uncle who, while in his mid 60s, had a german shepherd. Nice dog. My uncle went to the hospital for an operation. When he got out his dog was gone...his (adult) daughter said, "That dog was too much trouble for someone of your age so I gave it away to some friends who live out of state." Except she actually took it to a shelter where it was put down. Cars? A cousin of mine stole my grandmother's car, with the justification that, "grandma is 96 and shouldn't be driving any more..." Of course the fact that cousin had just wrecked her own car and needed a way to get to work had absolutely nothing to do with it, not one bit.

Now if you are asking what age I'll take action on my guns, that depends on which branch of the family I favor. On one side I have a grandmother who is still driving at 99, whose parents lived into their 90s as well...and on the other side someone making it to 76 would be breaking family records, and 60 is a pretty big milestone. That's the core problem with all of these discussions...my grandmother goes to a local senior center and volunteers her time to care for people who are 30-40 years YOUNGER than she is, but haven't aged 1:0th as well. How do you pick a specific age when 90 to one may be functionally "younger" than 60 for another?
 
I took my father's S&W 915 away when he said he couldn't remember how to use a semiautomatic...then he used a S&W model 28 after that (for about another year). I took all of them away last year (at age 89). He is so deaf, a burglar could have driven a car through the house and he'd have never heard it.
 
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