Which Ar-15

[Jay the Plinker]

I have been looking through "Guns" magazine ar-15 edition and liked the Hk gas piston system (also used by pof) thought that was nice and wondered what you all recommended. What do you look for? Anything like that would be great. What do you like.

 

[Wicked]

I went with LWRC after alot of searching around. Piston system as well. Amazing customer service. The fire control group, the bolt carrier and the bolt are all coated in our proprietary nickel coating that promotes permanent lubricity and allows the operator to run the gun nearly dry when the situation requires it.

 

[HDCamel]

What do you want to do with it?

I don't like piston ARs myself.
Piston doesn't really aid in reliability and it adds extra parts, weight, and recoil.

 

[Eb1]

I like conventional AR gas system. I also prefer to buy a lower, and then get the upper that I want.
The last upper I bought was a PSA HF Dissapator. A 16" barrel with rifle length hand guards. The lower is a Surplus Ammo, and the sights are a typical A2 front post with a DPMS detachable rear sight without the carry handle.

I was nailing a steel silhouette at 600 yards using M855 without any trouble. And I was also hitting a 540 yard 66% size steel silhouette with Black Hills 55 grain soft points effortlessly.

I also like White Oaks Armament's 20" Service uppers.

 

[TrickyDick]

Piston doesn't really aid in reliability and it adds extra parts, weight, and recoil.

That may be your opinion, but it's been proven mulitiple times. Piston systems rarely fail. there's been countless problems with the DI system in regards to reliability. but it really depends on the usage of the rifle, but overall, piston proves itself well. definitely worth it if you're running your rifle hot.

 

[Eb1]

Doesn't piston systems have problems with wearing the buffer?

 

[basicblur]

I don't like piston ARs myself.

I'm with you...first time I saw one, and learned a bit 'bout 'em...I just scratched my head and wondered...huh? Why? Looks like you're just trading one set of (small?) problems for a potential set of bigger problems.

The OP might do well to get his hands on some of Patrick Sweeney's Gun Digest AR books? I have 'bout three of 'em, and if memory serves, they got progressively worse / less informative? I think it was Vol. 1 or 2 where he devotes a chapter to piston vs. gas, etc.

While anecdotal, I occasionally listen to the Gunfighters Podcast - I believe the podcaster is current military firearms trainer. I recall one episode where some of the SF guys showed up at the range with a piston AR and everybody gave it a workout. I believe he stated after that experience, he wasn't sold on piston AR's.
I believe he stated they were much less accurate than the DI AR's they compared 'em to, but who knows what kind of shape each gun was in?
I have heard yes/no to the movement of the piston degrading accuracy.

Doesn't really matter to me at this point - the cost, complexity, chance of becoming an orphan, etc. give me no reason to really consider a piston over the old tried and true DI. I have heard arguments that 'might' justify using one with silencers, but 'til silencers get much cheaper, easier to obtain, that particular point (true or not) doesn't concern me.

 

[meanmrmustard]

That may be your opinion, but it's been proven mulitiple times. Piston systems rarely fail. there's been countless problems with the DI system in regards to reliability. but it really depends on the usage of the rifle, but overall, piston proves itself well. definitely worth it if you're running your rifle hot.

+1. However, if kept WELL lubricated, the DI will run. Likewise, the gas piston runs cooler, will not freeze, and is self clearing of fouling, ice, dirt and sand. They're heavier, but my research shows a deviance of roughly a quarter pound in similar platforms minus the gas system. If you carry your rifle daily, it makes a difference. If its a range gun, doesn't matter. Gas piston ARs a as accurate as DI guns, but I've not experienced one that was more so. If you're searching for match accuracy, maybe not for you. HD/hunting/plinking/SHTF rifle comes to mind.

In reality though, if you want an AR, get a DI. It was Stoners design, and it works. Add lib a brand that you can afford, and go for it.

If you want a gas piston, AKM variant. Arsenal, modified Saiga, Maadi, Galil. They're heavy, minute or bad guy accurate, loud, ugly, and most importantly, they're awesome.

If you decide to stay the route of GP AR, may I suggest S&W. Quite light for its design and without mall ninja gear, 1 MOA scoped.

 

[rcmodel]

Colt.

Thats really all you need to know.

rc

 

[meanmrmustard]

Colt.

Thats really all you need to know.

rc

Yup. 6940P.

 

[HDCamel]

will not freeze

Tell that to the Norwegians.

The only real disadvantage to DI is that the hot gasses burn off lubricant. Dirt and fouling isn't nearly as bad as a blowback rifle like the G3 series. Squirt some oil/CLP onto the BCG every several hundred rounds and you're in good shape.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Tell that to the Norwegians.

The only real disadvantage to DI is that the hot gasses burn off lubricant. Dirt and fouling isn't nearly as bad as a blowback rifle like the G3 series. Squirt some oil/CLP onto the BCG every several hundred rounds and you're in good shape.

Good luck finding one that fails in the cold. Norwegians, Siberians, Inuits. Come one come all.

 

[wickedsprint]

Colt.

Thats really all you need to know.

rc

Yup. Just ran my 6920 through a fun carbine shoot last week. Ran great.

 

[TonyAngel]

DI vs. Piston seems to be a never ending debate. You're going to hear proponents of both and horror stories from some that led them to the use of one or the other. The fact is that they both work.

I've seen both take a pretty good beating and go through a couple of thousand rounds in a single weekend and run without a hitch.

After having run both through the proverbial ringer, I settled on DI for one reason. The reason is the availability of parts. Maintenance parts for DI ARs are widely available and are freely exchanged among brands. With piston systems, the parts are going to be proprietary and the odds of someone having just what you need are slim, for now.

Contrary to popular belief, a good DI AR doesn't need to be run sopping wet. It just needs to be properly lubricated. Not necessarily for the lubrication, but so that there is a medium in the action to help displace crud as it accumulates. The trick is to use a lube that doesn't evaporate or cook off. There are a few available, but I use Slip 2000 EWL.

As far as troubles go, I've seen both DI and Piston rifles lock up tight, for one reason or another. It's just Murphy's Law at work. Neither are going to be completely 100%trouble free.

Of course, this is going to be a plug for the DI, but I've never run into a problem with a DI rifle (that's in good shape) that couldn't be fixed on the spot; but I've seen at least two instances where a piston rifle acted up and it meant the end of the shooting day for that rifle. The pistons just locked up.

 

[meanmrmustard]

DI vs. Piston seems to be a never ending debate. You're going to hear proponents of both and horror stories from some that led them to the use of one or the other. The fact is that they both work.

I've seen both take a pretty good beating and go through a couple of thousand rounds in a single weekend and run without a hitch.

After having run both through the proverbial ringer, I settled on DI for one reason. The reason is the availability of parts. Maintenance parts for DI ARs are widely available and are freely exchanged among brands. With piston systems, the parts are going to be proprietary and the odds of someone having just what you need are slim, for now.

Contrary to popular belief, a good DI AR doesn't need to be run sopping wet. It just needs to be properly lubricated. Not necessarily for the lubrication, but so that there is a medium in the action to help displace crud as it accumulates. The trick is to use a lube that doesn't evaporate or cook off. There are a few available, but I use Slip 2000 EWL.

As far as troubles go, I've seen both DI and Piston rifles lock up tight, for one reason or another. It's just Murphy's Law at work. Neither are going to be completely 100%trouble free.

Of course, this is going to be a plug for the DI, but I've never run into a problem with a DI rifle (that's in good shape) that couldn't be fixed on the spot; but I've seen at least two instances where a piston rifle acted up and it meant the end of the shooting day for that rifle. The pistons just locked up.

Locked up? Can you elaborate?

 

[basicblur]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of DI AR problems don't have anything to do with DI - the gun screwed up (or somebody mucked with it to the point it wasn't reliable), and it just happened to be a DI gun.
I think the same thing probably happens with 1911's and some folks thinking they aren't reliable?

 

[Fishbed77]

there's been countless problems with the DI system in regards to reliability

Never had a problem with a DI AR.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Never had a problem with a DI AR.

I haven't either. I just HATE cleaning them. It's a bugger.

 

[TonyAngel]

Locked up? Can you elaborate?

In both cases the piston or op-rod locked up. Neither would move. One was an Adam's Arms and I believe the the other was a Ruger. Now, I'm not trying to say that pistons and inherently unreliable. Like I said, I've seen piston rifles run with the best of them. My only point was that both of the rifles that I saw, suffered a malfunction, the cause of which couldn't be easily diagnosed.

With a DI rifle, if it stops running, you can pin the problem down pretty quickly as long as you started with a rifle that was running right. For me, anyway.

 

[Warp]

As the second reply asked...what do you want to do with it?

I notice OP hasn't posted since starting this thread...


If you want one of the best, something appropriate for staking your life on: Colt, Daniel Defense, Noveske or BCM (bravo company manufacturing). Pick one of them. They start at $1,000 for a basic model. $1,200-$1,500 could get a very nice, accessories/optioned model. But since it's your first starting basic would seem to make mores sense. (I don't have an AR YET, but I've done my research)

If you want a range toy, or a plinker, or you just feel that your collection is missing a piece, there are more legitimate options available and you can get away with spending less. Me? I'd love to have a Colt.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Jay the Plinker. You have asked what is the best of concealed, hunting, and on and on. Suggest you use the search engine Google. Lots of answers there.

That's a cop out response. He may have googled and found himself here. If you've no knowledge of what he/she asked, best not to comment.

To the absent OP: I suggest a build. That way you learn the ins and outs of the AR platform. You'll need to be schooled eventually, why not now!

Also, I know that gas piston looks enticing. Hell, it's my gas operation of choice, but I'd stick with a DI gun to start. The AR was designed around impingement. If you want a gas piston that can't be denied its trophy for awesomeness...get an AKM

As for an AR, Del ton or PSA. Great place to start, kits available, and MANY videos on the Tube on step by step construction. Good luck.

 

[justice06rr]

To the absent OP: I suggest a build. That way you learn the ins and outs of the AR platform. You'll need to be schooled eventually, why not now!

If this is the OP's first rifle, I don't suggest a build, but to buy a complete AR15 instead.

Coming from a fairly new fan of AR's, IMHO it is better to start with a complete rifle first and learn exactly how it works before taking on a build of your own. Getting experience and range time with an AR first is better than building one off the bat.

We don't know the OP's mechanical ability or inclination. I understand building one can be cheaper and more fun, but as a new shooter I think its better to buy a complete AR.

As far as suggestions go, a Colt or BCM is a great way to start. I also suggest Spikes Tactical and Smith and Wesson M&P's.

 

[meanmrmustard]

If this is the OP's first rifle, I don't suggest a build, but to buy a complete AR15 instead.

Coming from a fairly new fan of AR's, IMHO it is better to start with a complete rifle first and learn exactly how it works before taking on a build of your own. Getting experience and range time with an AR first is better than building one off the bat.

We don't know the OP's mechanical ability or inclination. I understand building one can be cheaper and more fun, but as a new shooter I think its better to buy a complete AR.

As far as suggestions go, a Colt or BCM is a great way to start. I also suggest Spikes Tactical and Smith and Wesson M&P's.

Then let us hope that he IS mechanically inclined in some way or another, if not, if anything should happen to that new complete rifle, or if he wants to begin changing things up, alot of time is going to be spent rereading and rewatching vids and how to's. If you have no knowledge of the platform, what better way to learn? Otherwise, poor guy might have to spend hard earned money having things done at a smith that he could've done himself (minor stuff, like changing gas block, free floating, replacing gas tube, etc.). I didn't suggest a build just for price, as some aren't even that cheap depending on manufacturer or options.

We don't know that he DOESNT have any skills. Shooting and getting range time is one thing, internal knowledge of the rifle for upkeep and preventative maintenance is a whole other animal.

If he goes for complete gun, I suggest M&P of some variation. Best CS I've dealt with (listening unnamed arms maker, you know who you are), and if he needs warranty work or a helping hand, they're awesome to speak with. YMMV.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Never had a problem with a DI AR

Me either, and I never intend to build or buy a piston rifle. Heavier, and (more importantly) less parts availability, both in terms of repair parts and aftermarket accessories.

Right now, I'm running my Armalite M15A2C as long as it will go without cleaning, just the occasional shot of CLP. Hasn't been cleaned in about a year now, still not a single hiccup aside from two Wolf rounds that physically wouldn't chamber because their shoulders were way out of spec.

 

[HOOfan_1]

If this is the OP's first rifle, I don't suggest a build, but to buy a complete AR15 instead.
.

I built my AR from the ground up (stripped lower, stripped upper) and I had never even fired an AR-15 before. All it really takes is some reading and youtube videos. That said, building my own was more for fun and to get exactly what I wanted instead of trying to save money.