which die is doing its job better?

[BrokenWheel]

I have been resizing my 223 brass with a Hornady custom grade die for about 2 years. Recently, I acquired a redding resizing die and I bought the carbide neck button for it.

I noticed that the brass resized with the redding had, what seemed to me to be tighter necks - because when I tried to use my Lyman hand trimmer, the neck pilot really had a tough time getting pushed into the neck for trimming, not to mention turning the trimmer. On some brass I really had to pull hard to get the bushing out. OTOH, brass resized with the Hornady set, the cartridge neck seemed big enough to easily accommodate the Lyman trimmer.

Which one of those dies would you continue to use?

 

[Win1892]

I would think the Hornady was working the brass less, how is accuracy between the two?

 

[BrokenWheel]

Haven't shot it yet (just got the Redding), but don't you mean the Redding is working the brass less since the neck isn't as expanded?

 

[rjrivero]

I would guess the Hornady is working the brass less. It doesn't size it down as far as the Redding does. So from fired wide open, to sizing back down to correct size, it's sizing it "looser" than the redding die.

If the bullets aren't slipping out of the hornady, and the accuracy is not changed, then I would go with the die that works the brass less: Hornady.

 

[Walkalong]

Check both sizers without the expander ball installed. That will tell you which one is sizing the neck down the most. Measure the expander balls with your dial caliper. That will tell you which expander is doing more work.

I use a Redding sizer with the carbide expander button. Works great. In all fairness, both set ups probably work just fine.

I like the carbide button cause I am lazy and I can skip lubing the nylon brush I use to run in the necks.

 

[BrokenWheel]

Interesting- so am I understanding you correctly that neck diameter on a bottleneck cartridge is determined by not only the expander in the resizing die but also the amount the die resizes the cartridges' body?

 

[dagger dog]

You don't want the inside of the case neck to be sized down much more than 0.002 inch under bullet size, if it is resized much smaller, then the bullet when seated will actually resize the case mouth, and the correct bullet "grip-pull" will be lost.

 

[BrokenWheel]

Thanks - I started to look at the Redding setup and I realized that I did not screw the resizer die down far enough to touch the shellplate. I twisted it down and turned it 1/4" down further as per Redding directions and now the case mouths seems to fit normally into the pilot.

I never realized that your pushing down on the "angled part" (sorry don't know the name) of the 223 case when your resizing.

 

[Walkalong]

determined by not only the expander in the resizing die but also the amount the die resizes the cartridges' body?

The neck portion of the sizer in a full length die sizes the neck down smaller than needed (for most brass) so it will be small enough with any neck thickness of brass. Then the expander ball sizes it back up to a good diameter.

You cannot tell which sizer is working the brass more by checking after both sizing/expanding. You must check after each step individually.

 

[Walkalong]

the "angled part"

Shoulder.

 

[BrokenWheel]

Sorry - one last question.

I measured the inside of the neck - .216" the bullet is .223" this is a .007 difference. According to daggerdog, it should be less. If my resizer die is already touching the shellplate (and has be turned about a 1/4 turn more), is this now the maximum diameter of the neck attainable by this die?

 

[Walkalong]

Do not turn the die down any more than to get it touching the shell plate or shell holder. You really need to get a good manual and read it thoroughly. These are very simple operations covered fully in the manuals. You seem to have no idea what is going on in the operations.

 

[rcmodel]

I measured the inside of the neck - .216" the bullet is .223"

Actually, bullets for the .223 Rem are .224" diameter.

If it was me, I'd use the Redding die for reloading for an auto-loader, brass life be damned.

High neck tension is a very good thing for a self-stuffer rifle, and the more of it the better!

rc

 

[Offfhand]

Simply put, in order to know what size neck button to use you also need to know the thickness of your case necks. Neck thickness will vary with different brands and even different lots, which is why a neck (tube) micrometer is necessary for most precise loading. I've sampled different batches and lots of .223 brass that ranged from .009" to .014" Most .223 brass is the .011"-.012" range. Which means that a .244" or .245" button will be about right. For top accuracy I turn .223 necks to a uniform .010" and use a .242" button.

 

[dagger dog]

Broken

Take the case thickness in 0.000 th's inch X 2 then subtract that from the outside measurement of fired case of your choice (in the rifle you are loading for) minus 0.002". That should give you the starting point, or the bushing size if you are using a bushing die, or the expander ball size. If you have a tight chamber make sure to turn you brass then do the measurment, and calculation, if it is a factory production rifle you won't need to turn the necks.

This is just the starting point, if you shoot a bolt rifle and are not worried about bullet set back in the mag, this will usually be the # for good bullet grip. But if you are shooting an AR type or any semi auto I would suggest a crimp, some people don't.

The "about .002" bullet grip also keeps the bullet straighter when seating, where as any thing looser may give you some bullet to case run out problems.