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Which is the safest autoloader when round loaded in chamber?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by el Godfather, Mar 27, 2012.

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  1. el Godfather

    el Godfather Member

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    Dear THR,
    In your opinion, which is the safest semi-auto pistol when carrying round in the chamber?

    When selecting your choice, it will be appreciated if you can tell us about that particular weapon's safety mechanisms.

    Thanks
     
  2. 3KillerBs

    3KillerBs Member

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    The one owned by a person who respects it and handles it appropriately.
     
  3. GI_Jared

    GI_Jared Member

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    In terms of avoiding an accidental discharge of a carry gun, I feel that a DA/SA pistol with a safety on it is the safest possible combination. Examples of this would be the Beretta 92 series or Stoeger Cougar.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    If you remove the human element (assume good safety skills) and disregard manual of arms to bring it into firing condition, I agree that the DA/SA with a slide mounted safety is the most mechanically safe when carrying a round in the chamber.

    The slide mounted safety requires a more deliberate motion to switch off than a frame mounted one.

    The DA first shot gives you more tactile feedback that you have begun your trigger press and gives you more time/distance to stop if needed.

    I personally prefer the Beretta 92/96 to the Cougar...but the principle is the same
     
  5. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    :confused: I would say any of them. All but the very cheapest pistols made in the last ~25 years have "drop safety" devices, to prevent firing if the gun is dropped, struck, thrown or whatever. When you touch or handle the gun, the safety mechanism between your ears comes into play.
    That said, some sort of long stroke DAO trigger would probably be the most forgiving of imperfect handling and safety practices. I think most of us would agree that there are phenomena such as hand shaking, etc. under "fight or flight" stresses, sympathetic muscle movement and such that do make this more difficult.
     
  6. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    You're correct, for the first shot. After a shot has been fired, you now have a cocked gun.
     
  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I know, I was balancing the DAO trigger without the facility of a manual safety and a DA/SA with one. Plus the slide mounted manual safety usually safely de-cocks the gun when applied.

    I'm a big fan of the SIG DAK and the Kahr triggers for new shooters...I think the DA trigger teaches superior trigger management skills...but the manual safety is an extra layer should a shooter be awakened from a sound sleep and grab their pistol less than correctly
     
  8. OregonJohnny

    OregonJohnny Member

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    Another vote for the Beretta 92FS, with the safety on (though I wouldn't recommend carrying it this way without PLENTY of practice in flipping up the safety during the draw). But it certainly is plenty safe this way.

    The firing pin block prevents the firing pin from moving forward in the channel unless the trigger is pulled completely to the rear (preventing firing if the gun is dropped), and the slide-mounted safety/decocker rotates the firing pin striker completely out of the way of the hammer. To fire, you'd have to very deliberately swipe the safety lever up to the fire position, and pull a long, heavy double action trigger completely to the rear. After that, the Beretta 92 actually has a pleasant single action trigger pull for 17 more shots. Or of course, the decocker can be used to safely lower the hammer again for double action, or to put the safety back on.

    The decocker design on the Beretta is great for a few more purposes - chambering a round, and holstering a loaded gun. I have gotten in the practice of chambering a round with the safety lever on safe. The round chambers, and the hammer automatically returns to the fully down position, and the safety is on. Then I holster the gun, and once it is safely and securely holstered, I flip the safety back up to off.
     
  9. labhound

    labhound Member

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    I agree with the Beretta 92, Stoeger/Beretta Cougar. Safety/decocker decocks gun and disables trigger until the safety is removed resulting in a DA first shot.
     
  10. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    The down side to the "'safe' gun" that is so resistant to inadvertent firing is that long heavy trigger pulls make them harder to shoot deliberately. There is no telling where a missed shot might go. :uhoh: Now, certainly you can overcome this over time with training and practice, but the same could be said of learning proper handling and safety practices.
     
  11. OregonJohnny

    OregonJohnny Member

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    I agree. But the same can be said for a DA revolver and it's long heavy trigger pull. Except it will be that way for every shot (unless the shooter has time to cock the hammer to SA).

    MY FIL tells me of an ex-cop who recommended to him that with a DA/SA semi-auto, you should shoot that first round into the ground just to quickly get to the SA trigger pull! :eek:

    I am taking a 350-round defensive handgun course in a couple of months, and I plan on using my Beretta 92FS (even though it's not my everyday CCW), just to master the DA/SA transition and everything that goes along with the platform.
     
  12. Babarsac

    Babarsac Member

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    HK P7

    I really like the grip mounted decocker and the 'thin' profile of the pistol. It's getting harder to find a single stack 9mm these days. Especially one without an external safety you have to operate when under duress.
     
  13. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    1911.

    Cocked and locked, grip safety, thumb safety. Great for 3 gun or carbine training where you're constantly switching between pistol and rifle quickly.

    Reholstering a DA/SA (without safety) or a striker fired pistol gets a bit hairy when I'm covered in straps, jackets, and bags. No worries with a 1911, and I find it's nose easy to stuff in a holster.

    The best part is unlike DA/SA and striker guns, is the 1911 actually has a good trigger, most likely the best trigger. And draws much faster than a DA/SA with that long, stiff 1st trigger pull.
     
  14. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    I also like a single action pistol with manual safety, 1911 or Browning High Power for a carry gun. I like the "safe action" pistols in general but see them as being very unsafe except for the Springfield XD with the grip safety.

    I don't like any of the traditional DA pistols, the triggers are almost without exception horrible to me. I have a couple, the CZ 75 comes to mind, but I don't carry it simply because of the long heavy trigger.
     
  15. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

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    Can't argue too much with the P7 being safe. Pretty hard to accidentally squeeze the grip and pull the trigger at the same time.
     
  16. easyg

    easyg Member

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    Glocks.


    There is nothing to confuse the shooter and nothing to complicate the shooting process....

    no manual safety, no decocker, no decocker/safety, no heavy DA first shot, no grip safety....




    Just keep your finger off the trigger till the target is in your sights and you are ready to shoot.

    Yes, it's really that simple.
     
  17. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I was thinking only of current production pistols, but if that isn't a condition of the recommendation, I'd vote for the H&K P7 also.

    It has a single action trigger which is completely uncocked until the cocking lever is squeezed...and un-cocks by relaxing your grip. What makes it safer than any of the others listed is that, should you drop a cocked P7, which has no manual or passive safety other than the cocking lever, it will un-cock (with the striker blocked) before it hits the ground
     
  18. ku4hx

    ku4hx Member

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    It's purely mechanical depending solely on whether or not there's a loose nut behind the trigger.
     
  19. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    NONE, kinda the point?
     
  20. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    As mentioned, most guns have a firing pin block, so choose one of those for carry. I prefer a gun without manual safeties, and love the trigger on my Kahr CW9, the long, long pull is the safety. You have plenty of time while pulling the trigger, to think about what your doing, and maybe time to grab a cup of coffee:evil:
     
  21. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I don't view it as a relative condition. It is either safe or it isn't. I think that all modern pistols are safe when used correctly. Learn the pistol you use, get some training.
     
  22. Nordeste

    Nordeste Member

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    As for being dumb-proof, I'd say any modern DA/SA semiauto with a manual safety and a firing pin block, the 92FS is a good example. You really want to fire that handgun if you have to work up that lever, located in the wrong place, and that DA pull.

    This is one of the reason why I'm leaning to striker fired. The long DA pull is ok at close range, not so much at a longer one.
     
  23. ActionJax

    ActionJax Member

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    How about a DAO with a mechanical safety, such as my S&W Bodyguard 380, placed in a trigger covering pocket holster?

    Long trigger pull, mech. safety which prevents the slide from coming back, trigger covered...... pretty safe to me.

    Much safer than my Sig P229 DA/SA, at least in my book.

    The safety is small, and requires a bit of practice to reliably click off. It shoots great, and I never even use the laser......
     
  24. hAkron

    hAkron Member

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    When you say 'safest' I assume you mean safe as in 'won't shoot when I don't want it to' and also safe as in 'I won't be hurt or killed by an attacker because it WILL shoot when I need it to without extraneous switches and buttons' in my opinion that would be either the P7 as others have stated, or a striker fired no manual safety weapon such as a Glock. Manual safeties are ok I guess, but they can be in the wrong position at the wrong time and shouldn't be relied on.
     
  25. tuj

    tuj Member

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    Even a non-series-80 1911 is fairly safe. In one of the 1911 books, the author loaded up some rounds with just primers, no powder, and made up a drop rig for a 1911. He had to drop the pistol something like 22 feet exactly straight down / barrel straight up, to get the firing pin to eventually hit the primer with enough force to set it off.

    Virtually any properly maintained gun is drop-safe within the realm of the real world.
     
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