Ohio allows Straight-walled cartridge rifles! Now which one to get?

[greyling22]

With these rifles which has good triggers in them and are tapped for scopes any suggestions. I have read that the marlins 1894s have horrible sloppy triggers and winchester isn't tapped and would be side mounted for the 1892. Any suggestions or experiences with these? The golden boys I have read are tapped but the brass is soft and may be a problem if shot a lot.

or you can do some quick work with a fine grit belt sander and some whetstones and fix your trigger up nice yourself. Working on an 1894 or a 336 isn't hard and can really transform a gun. But in a nutshell, the bolt overcocks the hammer, the guns are oversprung, and they need some polishing. WInchesters do not scope well. They are a trimmer gun, so they tend to carry and handle a little better, but if you want to scope a lever gun, get a marlin. The only marlins I have seen that wern't tapped were really old. Like 1960's and earlier old. Waffle tops. Most marlins are tapped for scope mounts, and I recommend a sleek scope, warne mounts and burris low rings. They get the scope down as low as it will go, and you want low to get the proper cheek weld and still see through the scope.

see the difference in these two pictures. The top gun in both is a 336 with a warne 1 piece mount and burris signature low rings. the scope literally cannot be mounted any lower without hitting the hammer on the scope. In the first picture the bottom gun is a 336 I just bought that is poorly scoped with warne 2 piece rings (mount holes don't allow for placing the scope far enough forward) any mystery QD rings that are probably high's. the scope is at least 1/2" too tall too see through right.
The gun in the 2nd picture is a the same scope and rings moved on to an 1894 with a ncstar picatinny rail. (same height as a regualr weaver mount) See how the mount is 1/4" higher than the warne mounts and the scope is WAY too high?

a final note, those 2 scopes have very small rear bells. If you run a scope with something bigger than a leupold/weaver classic rear ocular, you might want a little more height. Just remember, the higher it is mounted, the more your head will float off the stock.

 

[Badlander]

Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70 is heavy?

 

[Badlander]

If you want light My Rossi 92 in .45 Colt is 4.5 lbs empty. Properly loaded hits like A sledge hammer.

 

[savanahsdad]

Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70 is heavy?

no not heavy , but it dose weight more than a 1894 in 44 mag , I don't think the OP would enjoy shooting a guide gun in 45/70 with his bad shoulder , if it was not for his bad shoulder and wanting to hike the hills with this new gun , I would agree with the 45-70 and we still don't know if he wants a lever gun , I would like a Guide gun in 450Marlin , but I still have good shoulders

 

[Dr.Rob]

.357 Max is a great cartridge, just not much out side custom single shots available for it.

 

[chicharrones]

Chances are that with .357Mag from an 1892 clone you'd be fine even without a pad. With a pad it would turn the recoil into a kitten swat.

Nice description.

 

[Joemyxplyx]

I voted 357 Mag. 158 grn bullet at around 2000 FPS muzzle velocity should put a wallop on a deer

+1 on that. I already have an 1894c Marlin that I plan to use. My son has Marlins in .44 and .45 Colt that I could use, but I think the .357 is plenty.

That little carbine is light, handy, quick, low-recoil and deadly to 100 yds; 125 if you've got a good broadside presentation. That's about the max range on a bead and buckhorn sight the gun carries anyway.

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

H&R Buffalo classic in 47/70 is very shoulder friendly with it's 32 inch barrel.
I use a wack-a-mole Lee Loader to load 350 gr jacketed flatnose pills.
They shoot thru a 6 inch sweet gum tree and kill whatever is on the other side of it.
Very effective when hunting in thickets where the deer in my state usually hang out during legal hunting hours.
STW

 

[Reloadron]

H&R Buffalo classic in 47/70 is very shoulder friendly with it's 32 inch barrel.
I use a wack-a-mole Lee Loader to load 350 gr jacketed flatnose pills.
They shoot thru a 6 inch sweet gum tree and kill whatever is on the other side of it.
Very effective when hunting in thickets where the deer in my state usually hang out during legal hunting hours.
STW

Uh huh, and how does the tree feel about that? Have you considered the feelings of the tree?

Ron

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

Ron, the tree didn't seem to mind, if it did........ never said a word. LOL!
Anyway the trees I have shot deer thru, are still alive and well.
Anyway if the ol' 45/70 didn't do such a great job of taking deer humanely, I am certain the deer would mind much more than the tree.
STW

 

[witchhunter]

I am a big fan of the .357 Maximum, I wish I could get a 92 chambered for it. But, there is very little in this country that a 45/70 can't handle. Load it up or load it down, it will do the job.

 

[berettashotgun]

I'm just asking, but are sabots allowed?
45-70 shooting a sabot would tremendously reduce recoil.
Any which way you could skin this deer - I'd take the 45-70.
Sabots would make it much more bearable to shoot.

 

[zeek96]

As for preference about action type I don't have a preference. I am used to bolt action rifles and pump shotguns. I have used my fathers henry 22 lever action and that was fine as well. Mainly looking for the best cartridge for deer, can get cartridges if need be but would reload once I have components so those should be considered on how easily components are to get, the impact to the shoulder since once surgery was enough, and weight since I really don't want a super heavy rifle going up the hills. As for hunting majority in treed areas with low brush but have power line access for long shots and several hedgerows and fields to shoot into. Also want good trigger or one that can be modified easily or replaced. Don't ant a 8 lb trigger like on the H&R handy rifle. And I will be putting a scope on probably 1-4 or 2-7.

 

[Reloadron]

As for preference about action type I don't have a preference. I am used to bolt action rifles and pump shotguns. I have used my fathers henry 22 lever action and that was fine as well. Mainly looking for the best cartridge for deer, can get cartridges if need be but would reload once I have components so those should be considered on how easily components are to get, the impact to the shoulder since once surgery was enough, and weight since I really don't want a super heavy rifle going up the hills. As for hunting majority in treed areas with low brush but have power line access for long shots and several hedgerows and fields to shoot into. Also want good trigger or one that can be modified easily or replaced. Don't ant a 8 lb trigger like on the H&R handy rifle. And I will be putting a scope on probably 1-4 or 2-7.

With consideration for the shoulder I would consider cartridges like the 44 Remington Magnum, the 45 Colt, or the 357 Magnum. I suggest you find a way to beg, borrow or whatever and try each cartridge. Cartridges like the 444 Marlin and 45-70 Government will offer a stout recoil. Anyway you are looking at 100 yard shooting with the 44, 45, or 357 as mentioned.

I had a 4X scope on my little Ruger 44 Carbine and removed it. I just didn't see any need for it. Consider a carbine type rifle as it affords short and handy.

There are other cartridges but i the interest of keeping things simple I would consider the ones mentioned. All are easy to find and all are easy to hand load. My Ruger 44 Carbine is around a 6 Lb rifle, My Marlin 444 comes in around 7.5 Lbs and I would imagine any similar designed 45-70 would weigh about the same. I have no idea how you define "super heavy rifle"?

Ron

 

[zeek96]

Supper heavy 9lbs and up. A friend of mine let me borrow his 308 win for a hunting trip. Dn thing had a target barrel and weighed 13lbs. Not knowing any of these guns just looking for in for and experience. Not many around me in ohio know much about these caliber a. Local gun store suggested the 45-70 and higher since he said ohio deer were bigger and tough. I have yet to find one bullet proof when hit correctly. Think the shop owner just wanted to sell the item since he hand nothing else in other calibers.

 

[Reloadron]

Supper heavy 9lbs and up. A friend of mine let me borrow his 308 win for a hunting trip. Dn thing had a target barrel and weighed 13lbs. Not knowing any of these guns just looking for in for and experience. Not many around me in ohio know much about these caliber a. Local gun store suggested the 45-70 and higher since he said ohio deer were bigger and tough. I have yet to find one bullet proof when hit correctly. Think the shop owner just wanted to sell the item since he hand nothing else in other calibers.

I tend to strongly disagree with a need for a 45-70 or larger.

Local gun store suggested the 45-70 and higher since he said ohio deer were bigger and tough.

I hunted plenty of deer in West Va. who were on par with the deer here in Ohio and a 44 Magnum from the little rifle I mentioned killed them all quite dead just fine. You do not need a 444 Marlin or 45-70 to take Ohio's deer, believe me. The merit to those cartridges is range and with that goes recoil.

There have been countless white papers done on the subject of recoil or as they like to call it FRE (FREE RECOIL ENERGY). Here is a link to the SAAMI take on the subject.
Note the variables that figure into the calculations. While the formulas are interesting they really don't matter much because it is how the shooter feels the recoil and no two shooters are likely to perceive or feel recoil the same.

The lever guns make for good handy easily handled rifles. My suggestion remains a 7.5 Lb. lever gun in a 357, 44 Mag or 45 Colt chambering. That will give you a 100 yard deer rifle in Ohio.

Ron

 

[huntsman]

Does anyone know if the Rossi leaver guns can handle the Buffalo Bore .45C hot ammo?

 

[Revoliver]

This might help as a quick comparison of calibers/chamberings as well:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

 

[mavracer]

Does anyone know if the Rossi leaver guns can handle the Buffalo Bore .45C hot ammo?

Yes

 

[Reloadron]

Does anyone know if the Rossi leaver guns can handle the Buffalo Bore .45C hot ammo?

Gets interesting as here is in part what Rossi has to say:

Regarding use of "+P" ammunition in Rossi Firearms. Many Rossi firearms are "+P Rated" for SAAMI Recognized +P loads. These products say "+P" or "+P rated" in their product descriptions.

These are the only +P Loads recognized by SAAMI: 9mm, 38 SPL, 38 Super and 45 Auto.

That would agree with what the nice people at SAAMI mention.

However, the people at Buffalo Bore mention:

Buffalo Bore loads their ammunition up to maximum SAAMI specifications, which delivers devastating performance on a wide range of game. These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are safe in all LARGE FRAME Ruger revolvers.(includes Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, all pre-2005 Vaquero, Bisley, Redhawk) These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are NOT intended for the New Model Vaquero (small frame). These loads are also safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's Please note that this ammunition is not intended for older guns. It is made for modern firearms only, as some of the ammunition could damage older and weaker firearms. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases.

Buffalo Bore constantly makes reference to 45 Colt +P yest SAAMI shows no data for a 45 Colt +P.

My advice would be to contact Rossi and ask them. Buffalo bore also shows a few loadings in 45 Colt

Personally and just my opinion I wouldn't bother with the really hot loads. There is really no reason to beat the heck out of a perfectly good rifle with hot loads. Even if the rifle handles the loads I have to wonder what the long term effect would be.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[huntsman]

These loads are also safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's

I bought 50 rounds of BB 325gr LBT-LFN for my Blackhawk and thought through a rifle it would make a real thumper load, problem is I can't afford a used Marlin and I'm wondering when or IF the new Remlins will be available. So I'm thinking a Rossi R92-57008 would suffice and more inline with my budget.

 

[BCRider]

Wanting to add a scope does tend to complicate matters.

The slick and light handling Rossi lever guns are clones of the old Winchester 1892. As such the whole top of the receiver is actually the top of the bolt. So there's no really decent way of mounting a scope. They are really at their best with an added on receiver or tang mounted rear peep sight.

With the right size aperture a rear peep can sharpen our "old guy eyes" while providing a clearer view of the sights and target. The ONLY downside is that the smaller and sharper aperture sizes will cut down the available light. And in dim brush on a dim day a really small peep size will make things so dark that it hurts instead of helps. But salvation is a switch of the peep away to something with a bigger aperture to let more light through. The good news is that switching from a small .035 to a .050 has little effect in accuracy provided you're calm and hold the proper sight picture.

Have you shot at all with a rear mounted peep sight? Do you really need a low power scope over what a peep can provide? Potentially the Rossi with a switch to a rear mounted peep has the potential of offering a 6lb package with a new rear sight, upgraded recoil pad and a tube of loads. All the other options are going to be at least a pound heavier.

On the other hand if you can find a Marlin 1894 in .44Mag the solid top on the receiver opens up the option for drilling and tapping for a rail to accept the scope mounts. Also the listed weight is higher at 6.5 lbs from the Marlin web site. So you're starting off at a significant weight rise over a Rossi lever or Ruger bolt option.

Another option that would accept a scope would be the Ruger 77/44 bolt action rifle. It's a plastic stocked stainless design so it would handle the weather well. And at 5.25 lbs empty it certainly qualifies for "light". But of course you're going to add a good half pound of scope and rings to that. And again a switch to a thicker and softer recoil pad would do much towards easing the impact on your tender shoulder.

As for takedown power the bigger and heavier bullets are known for good penetration. I enjoy my handgun .44Mags with a toned down load of a 240gn cast LRNFP traveling at around 1100 fps. When I mentioned this"light" load in a recent thread someone replied with a smilie that it would still punch clean through a horse. And with ANY sort of rifle it will be super simple to get another 150 to 200fps out of such a load while still being very shoulder friendly. So I'm thinking that for ease of availability. Cast vs jacketed options and a bevy of loading data on all manner of loads from mild to wild that you are likely going to have a better time with .44Mag.

 

[zeek96]

Great info guys thank you very much. As for peep sights I have used them for most of my shooting years. Problem I was having was when out past 50 yards I was losing the shot placement on the deer trying to keep either the pin in focus or other type of front sight. Any suggestions as to which 357 magnum or 44 mag is good over all with fit finish and trigger? It sounds like with reloading it may be the way to go.

 

[Reloadron]

There is no shortage of good rifles out there. Personally I like the Winchester and Marlin flavors and lean towards Marlin. Ruger has also made some real nice guns. The Rossi and Henry guns are also good. Really comes down to what you want to pay for the rifle. Again, personally I would be looking for a seldom used good condition used rifle. Used rifles like my little Ruger Model 44 seem to be in the $600 range. I think I paid $120 new when I bought it in '66. I also like Marlin lever guns.

Here is a Henry down Cincy way in a gun shop:
For Sale: Henry Golden Boy 44mag/spc. $775

Something you want to watch is since the Ohio Hunting Regulations have changed everyone out there will be looking to ask more for these rifles. Shop wisely is all I am suggesting and compare prices.

Ron

 

[Badlander]

I have said good things about Rossi in the past. Till my latest. Found out the hard way they will not sell replacement parts. To anyone. Not even A hammer with an obvious casting flaw on the full cock notch. No longer waranteed not their problem.
I can not recommend A rifle that has no replacement parts available.