Ironicaintit
Member
Oh well, in that case! Bullseye works great (5 grains), but for no real tangible reason other than "the seat of my pants", I am partial to 6.5 grains of Unique with a 230gr.Detritus said:
Not super hot, but they're up there.
Which of these three powders for 45acp?
- Thread starter Detritus
- Start date
- Status
Not super hot, but they're up there.
johnmcl
Member
I'm a Bullseye powder fan.
With an OAL of 1.260, a 230gr RN plated bullet from Xtreme, and 4.2gr BE I generate 730 ft/s. That's comfortably above the IDPA PF floor of 718 ft/s. With this load from a Ransom Rest I can generate a 2.5 in group at 50 yards, which is within this 1911's manufacturer's guarantee.
What I am not suffering or particularly aware of is this dirty factor. I clean the gun every few hundred rounds. There is never, ever a residue malfunction.
With an OAL of 1.260, a 230gr RN plated bullet from Xtreme, and 4.2gr BE I generate 730 ft/s. That's comfortably above the IDPA PF floor of 718 ft/s. With this load from a Ransom Rest I can generate a 2.5 in group at 50 yards, which is within this 1911's manufacturer's guarantee.
What I am not suffering or particularly aware of is this dirty factor. I clean the gun every few hundred rounds. There is never, ever a residue malfunction.
LiveLife
Member
The reasons why many USPSA shooters use match loads that "just" make power factor are many but mostly for faster stage times.Detritus said:
USPSA shooters will quickly find out faster stage times trumps slight edge in accuracy of loads. You don't need bullseye match level of accuracy for action pistol matches but you do need loads that will allow you to double tap faster.
When I was developing my 1911 loads for USPSA, I tested Bullseye/Clays/WST/W231/Universal/HS-6/WSF but settled with W231 because it allowed my sights to return back to the target/POA faster with least amount of effort due to recoil impulse for the recoil spring rate I was using. Bullseye/WST did produce slightly more accurate loads but recoil impulse was different than slower burning W231. Other shooters also suggested I try different rate recoil springs to fine tune my load for faster double taps.
If you found accurate "powder puff" loads, you could try lower rate recoil springs to make your pistol cycle reliably. The goal is to have accurate loads that meet PF requirement while allowing you to return to target/POA fastest/easier.
This article goes into detail how different recoil spring rates affect cycle time for full power vs reduced power match loads - http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/recoil-spring-rate-affects-timing/
tcoz
Member
I used Bullseye for years with great results but when I started using a Chargemaster 1500 to weigh charges I found that it would bind itself to the inside of the powder hopper and made it very difficult to empty so I switched to W231/HP-38 and have been very happy.
OP
OP
Detritus
Member
If you're talking about the powder grains sticking to the inside of the hopper due to static cling. just rub the inside of the hopper with a dryer sheet before loading the powder, works wonders.
I've wound up doing (or did) that for all but the oldest of the powder measures I've ever used. the one that I never used a dryer sheet on was an old herter's branded one with a hopper body so scratched and hazed up it may as well have been frosted glass.
kitsapshooter
Member
"with 230 gr, you are pushing only 717 fps to meet major power factor "
This is a false statement. 717 fps(velocity) will not make 165 PF. It is actually 164.9 And this is still minor PF. And no R/O is going to give you he .1 to make Major.
velocity x mass/1000 = power factor.
We do not round up for anyone.
Now as to powders WST is a popular and pretty good.
This is a false statement. 717 fps(velocity) will not make 165 PF. It is actually 164.9 And this is still minor PF. And no R/O is going to give you he .1 to make Major.
velocity x mass/1000 = power factor.
We do not round up for anyone.
Now as to powders WST is a popular and pretty good.
tcoz
Member
Static cling is easy to overcome. The issue with Bullseye is that it's a high nitroglycerin powder which causes it to actually bind itself to certain polymers. It was never a problem with my old Lee powder hopper but the Chargemaster uses a different polymer. I had to use something to lightly scrape it off the sides and when I opened the drain, it wouldn't flow out without using something like a pencil plunged back and forth through the drain end to get it out. It would take 15-20 minutes to fully empty it and then it left the clear hopper permanently clouded and very rough inside.
BTW, RCBS was good enough to send me a replacement clear hopper at no charge.
LiveLife
Member
kitsapshooter, many USPSA shooters do not load right to power factor (PF) but 5+ PF over to give them ambient temperature/velocity variation buffer as temperature sensitivity of the powders can vary the fps from winter to summer and I posted 165 and 170 PF/velocities - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10208455#post10208455
entropy
Member
+1. I use Bullseye and Unique when I can't find AA#5, which is often these days.....
ArchAngelCD
Member.
And you don't worry about a failure in competition when using Bullseye or Unique?+1. I use Bullseye and Unique when I can't find AA#5, which is often these days.....
entropy
Member
Never had a problem. I usually have enough rounds loaded with AA#5 available, and use the bullseye & unique rounds for practice.
Metal God
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2015
- Messages
- 445
How many rounds are fired in a match . If less then 200 then wow if your gun malfunctions with any load you're using . Is it really that likely your gun would get so dirty in a match it would stop working ? That's assuming you started with a clean firearm ?
Don't get me wrong I completely understand why you would want the cleanest burning powder for the job but is bullseye really so bad your gun is likely to fail or even might fail ?? I'll admit i'm a rifle guy but have slung quite a few hand gun rounds down range . I'm not sure I ever had a failer do to the firearm being dirty . I've not had many failers period .
Don't get me wrong I completely understand why you would want the cleanest burning powder for the job but is bullseye really so bad your gun is likely to fail or even might fail ?? I'll admit i'm a rifle guy but have slung quite a few hand gun rounds down range . I'm not sure I ever had a failer do to the firearm being dirty . I've not had many failers period .
OP
OP
Detritus
Member
will related my personal experience so far
Most of the matches I've shot, the round count is between 150 and 200 (wise shooters to either of the two matches I do every month bring 200 minimum in case of re-shoots). There IS a local match where it's suggested that you show with 250-300, but I have not had a chance to shoot that one yet.
currently my cleaning routine, is boresnake the barrel after each range trip/match, and strip and clean about once a month. so bore every 2-300 and field strip, clean/lube every 5-600rds.
No cleaning related issues/stoppages as of yet. with any of the powders I've used, including some very "high residue" PPU made factory loads.
LiveLife
Member
Some match barrels have tighter chambers and depending on the bullet (especially lubed lead)/powder/charge/taper crimp used (many match shooters use minimal taper crimp for faster sealing of case mouth with chamber), could foul enough to fail to fully chamber a round during a match that required a tap on the back of the slide. More than once, when we inquired if worn/reduced recoil spring was culprit, they were new/relatively new recoil springs and cleaning the chamber addressed the chambering issue. I have even seen some match shooters clean their barrel chambers between stages.Metal God said:
My match 1911/P226/Glocks often went past 500-1000+ round practice sessions without failure to fully chamber (2000+ for Glocks) but 1911 with tighter match barrel was more sensitive to fouling build up with .452" diameter lubed lead bullets. My current Sig 1911 has tight chamber with even shorter leade (almost none) and after 300+ rounds of dirtier reloads using lead lubed bullets and Promo, it will start to slow down and fail to fully chamber if chamber is not cleaned. My 40S&W Lone Wolf barrels have tighter than factory chambers and while it will shoot 1000+ rounds of .400" diameter jacketed/plated bullets without issues, will start to experience failure to fully chamber with .401" diameter lubed lead bullets after 100-200+ rounds.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Detritus
Member
Update and results..
Well, wound up getting a pound each of Bullseye and Power Pistol (on recommendation of a fellow shooter), loaded up some test batches, and today finally got out to the range to see how they shot.
In think my gun likes 4.4gr of bullseye....
https://flic.kr/p/FbCs25 https://www.flickr.com/photos/31838309@N03/
this was the furthest back of the three targets that I tested the loads on for group. I set it up to simulate the approximate longest engagement(s) typically found at my local match. my point of aim was the bottom of that blue 4-paster patch at the top of the scoring zone.
looks like i'll be spending Friday morning driving around town for the brass and bullets i'm low on and the afternoon loading a batch for this Sunday's match
oh and to speak to the slight "dirty powder" side track we had earlier, this is my gun after the 100 round (4x 25rds per load) load testing session, plus 120-something SWC loads that I burned for practice because I can't get them to feed reliably.
this is the sootiest I've had the gun in a long while.
Well, wound up getting a pound each of Bullseye and Power Pistol (on recommendation of a fellow shooter), loaded up some test batches, and today finally got out to the range to see how they shot.
In think my gun likes 4.4gr of bullseye....
https://flic.kr/p/FbCs25 https://www.flickr.com/photos/31838309@N03/this was the furthest back of the three targets that I tested the loads on for group. I set it up to simulate the approximate longest engagement(s) typically found at my local match. my point of aim was the bottom of that blue 4-paster patch at the top of the scoring zone.
looks like i'll be spending Friday morning driving around town for the brass and bullets i'm low on and the afternoon loading a batch for this Sunday's match
oh and to speak to the slight "dirty powder" side track we had earlier, this is my gun after the 100 round (4x 25rds per load) load testing session, plus 120-something SWC loads that I burned for practice because I can't get them to feed reliably.
this is the sootiest I've had the gun in a long while.
Last edited:
Blue68f100
Member
If you can find the WST you can shoot over 1000 rounds and it want get that dirty. WST is one of the few powders that burn clean even at low pressure/reduced loads. I had a fellow shooter at the range one day complaining his SS 1911 was black like that after 1 mag. Then I showed him my SS 1911 after 200 rounds, it was cleaner than his.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Wow, you bought Bullseye and Power Pistol. Those are two very different powders. Too bad you didn't buy BE-86 instead.
Along with freeloaders listed above W231, AA#5, Zip and a few others would be better choices because they are cleaner yet deliver similar results.
Yes, very dirty usually which in a competition worries me. If you gunk up the works go the point of failure there goes your match and it could have been avoided.
Along with freeloaders listed above W231, AA#5, Zip and a few others would be better choices because they are cleaner yet deliver similar results.
Yes, very dirty usually which in a competition worries me. If you gunk up the works go the point of failure there goes your match and it could have been avoided.
evtSmtx
Member
I personally use both Power Pistol and BE-86 and like both
I use Unque for full power service loads and jacketed bullets both ball and JHP's. 6.2 to 6.5 grs of Unique for 850 fps + 230gr JHP's or FMJ's, 7.8grs of Unique for 185gr JHP's for 1,050 fps.
For 200gr LSWC target loads I'll use whatever fast power on hand including Red Dot, Green Dot, AA2, Clays, W231 are some I've loaded. Bullseye would work fine.
For 200gr LSWC target loads I'll use whatever fast power on hand including Red Dot, Green Dot, AA2, Clays, W231 are some I've loaded. Bullseye would work fine.
Catpop
Member
Back to original post, I bought Win 231 at Perry's gun shop in Wendell (Raleigh area) today. They had plenty.
- Status
