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Which would you use for whitetail in this situation?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Bullseye, Sep 10, 2016.

?

Use this

Poll closed Oct 10, 2016.
  1. .243 Win Model 70

    17.5%
  2. 25-06 Rem Ruger #1

    6.3%
  3. .270 Win Howa 1500

    31.7%
  4. 30-30 Win Model 94

    9.5%
  5. 30-40 Krag Sporter

    3.2%
  6. 32 Win Spl Model 94

    1.6%
  7. 35 Rem Model 14

    14.3%
  8. 44 Mag rifle Henry BB no scope

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 45-70 Marlin Guide Gun

    15.9%
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  1. Bullseye

    Bullseye Member

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    Most of the deer I have shot were at pretty close distances. I usually take the .270 Win to my stand. I am not able to drag a deer anymore, but am not afraid to go out hunting alone.
    My two present stands are fairly easy to get the deer out of the woods.
    My tree stand will see out into the woods as far as 150 yds with dirt roads to drive out to the kill.
    The other is a moderate wooded hillside that my view is of about 100 yds.
    I want to drop the deer where it gets shot or soon afterwards.
    There is a chance I may see a good buck out further but mainly, I just like to put a deer in the freezer once a year.
    My choices are in the poll.
    What would you use? I am leaning toward the 35 Rem so I voted for that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  2. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    They all kill equally well. I'd take the one that was most accurate.
     
  3. MrGiggles

    MrGiggles Member

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    With the possibility of a 100+ yard shot I would want the .270 or 25-06. They will be the flattest shooting out of the bunch, and will retain plenty of velocity.

    For the best chance of a DRT kill I'd be looking at a high velocity .30 caliber, like 30-06 or .308. I've shot 5 deer with a 30-06, 4 were DRT. One went 30 yards. All at ranges from 30-200 yards.
     
  4. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    The rifle and it's cartridge doesn't make much difference. There's no guarantee at all of a shot shot kill/DRT with any cartridge. Like jmr40 says, use the one you shoot best.
    Unless you have ammo/brass, forget the Krag altogether. Only loaded "seasonally". Ditto for brass.
    "...not able to drag a deer anymore..." There are ways. No idea if it was commercially made, but there is/used to be a 2 wheel cart that used bicycle wheels for just such emergencies. Plan 'B' would be you being a mentor for a new hunter.
     
  5. gspn

    gspn Member

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    If I'm reading your post correctly, you'll have a maximum shot of 150 yards and your primary concern is having the deer fall immediately upon being shot or very shortly after. Is that right?

    If that's the case, pick the rifle that you feel most accurate with at 150 yards, and then make sure your shot placement is good.

    Shot placement has more to do with post-impact behavior than caliber. Almost all of my shots are double lung, and almost all of those deer run 20 to 50 yards.

    There are many other shots you can take, some more effective than others at dropping a deer quickly (neck shot for example) and they all have their tradeoffs.
     
  6. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    High shoulder shot or neck shot. Caliber is insignificant in this situation. Pick the rifle you shoot best.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2016
  7. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I second a high shoulder shot if you don't want to track. I'd probably go .270 because I like that chambering for deer, but lots of other options will work.
     
  8. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    What gspn said. I like 243.
     
  9. CarJunkieLS1

    CarJunkieLS1 Member

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    Take that .270 with a quality bullet and put the shot on the high shoulder. It's a DRT 100% of the time
     
  10. entropy

    entropy Member

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    +1; They all would do the job, if you do yours, but my first 3 choices would be .270, .25-06, .243.
     
  11. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    .25-06 for me.
     
  12. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    Voted for the .270 BTW. Solid, proven deer killing round for nearly a century.
     
  13. Sun Tzu warrior

    Sun Tzu warrior Member

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    I would go with the 45/70 limbs brush ect, won't change the bullets path with the right projectiles, and shoot them in the liver. During battles in mid-evil times a liver wound took the enemy out of the battle faster, than any other, except a clean severed head.
    I used to go for the lung/heart, but after watching many bow hunting videos saying to myself they will track the deer a long way because the shot was too far back only to see them find the deer close to where it was shot, I started shooting liver.
    The deer I have liver shot have gone from 8 to 30 yards and died right there.
    Neck shots are risky because the neck is thick and you have to hit spine which is not.
    I know there are people that will argue the neck shot with me but necks and head can move quickly, and often do, we are talking about a live animal not a target.
    STW
     
  14. Predator55

    Predator55 Member

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    I would go with the hammers, 35 rem or 45/70. I have a 35 and its and great gun.
     
  15. JohnhenrySTL

    JohnhenrySTL Member

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    I voted .243. Any of them will work, but I assume it's scoped and the easiest to shoot. You mentioned dragging a dear may be hard so that leads me to believe you could train easier with a lighter recoiling gun. Above all else, a relative of mine who helped teach me to hunt used one for years. He said for reasons unknown they tended to drop deer faster than his other guns with faster bullets.

    I watched him the shoot the largest buck I have ever seen with a .243. I was way up on a hill in a stand. When out of no where I thought I saw an elk standing still. Within almost the exact instant I heard the shot and the bone crack. The deer didn't take one step or react., and about 2 seconds later it plopped right over.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  16. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Could someone post a photo of a "high shoulder shot" please? I'm going on my first deer hunt this fall, and I was planning on a lung shot thru the rib cage, but knowing other options are nice.

    I'll be hunting alone, and I'm no spring chicken myself. I'll have to drag a ways too, but I have a Dead Sled ordered and on the way, and the area I'll be in should be easy to drag through. I hope. Hoping for some snow to help.
     
  17. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I like this pic. The nice thing about the high shoulder shot is that it puts them right out, but if you are off a little in any direction, it's still a good hit. (Pic shamelessly stolen for educational purposes)

    bheyh2.jpg
     
  18. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Ok, thanks! Now, can you explain why that's a good kill shot please? There's no organs there, so I need to know what I'd be wanting to hit. Seems like that would damage a lot of meat to me.
     
  19. Sun Tzu warrior

    Sun Tzu warrior Member

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    Good luck with that shot placement.
    4 years ago I helped 2 different bow hunters in Illinois track bucks that were shot exactly in that spot. Below the spine and above the vitals. We tracked for a long time before the blood petered out and gave up.
    How do I know where the arrows hit you ask.
    Because both deer were killed 2 weeks later during shotgun season.
    One by the same hunter, the wound was almost healed.
    The other by the bow hunters wife. This deer even had the Fletching which was missing from the arrow inside him. Again almost healed.
    maybe hydro static shock from a high powered rifle will yield a different result.
    As for me I will shoot for liver every time. DRT every time except one he went 35 yards.
    This is a picture of him;
    STW
     

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  20. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    Negatory on the no "vitals there" comment. That shot shown is a bit higher than I like however it will destroy the "spaghetti" junction of massive vessels above the heart. Once you cut the ascending aorta a critter has about a second or two of life left. It kills faster than a straight up heart shot because the heart is still pumping at full force causing massive hemorrhaging under pressure.

    Secondarily it breaks large bones usually shocks the spine and almost always results in a DRT at impact kill. I learned this shot from African Professional Hunters. Once I started using it on DG especially cape buffalo any and all drama was removed from shooting them. Pop them there they either hit the ground and give a death bellow or they run about 25 yards then drop and give a death bellow.

    It works exactly the same on North American game and I've done it multiple times with deer and elk and antelope.

    That being said I would NEVER try to pull off that shot with a bow. There is simply to much bone in the way that will most likely stop an arrow. An arrow needs to go through the soft part of the animal and not break bone to do it. And yes you will lose a little bit of shoulder meat on this shot with a bullet. Not enough to make a bit of difference to me.

    In Africa they speak of the vital triangle. It works the same here. Put a bullet anywhere in that triangle and you'll get a very rapid kill. Putting a bullet behind that line and you'll get a kill on North American game it just takes a bit longer. On African game that is a gut shot.

    Sun Tzu says he shoots for the liver? Okay so he purposely shoots behind the diaphragm? Never heard of that but if it works good on him. I shot whitetail once that was a bad shot. long story but I hit him running away popped the liver and one lung. I found him 8 hours later and he was still alive. I also tracked a big buck down in SE Colorado that took an arrow through the liver he lived through the night. So I'm not buying the liver shot is a DRT every time.

    Vital Triangle. Works great on African and North American game. The big red dot is where I like to shoot.

    299ed71b-754a-4235-b5b3-c583bdfa811f_zps0yhinhuk.jpg
     
  21. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    As always there are two schools of thought. Hit them hard with a light, fast expanding bullet, or hit them harder with a heavy slow expanding bullet.

    Either will kill, but my personal experience is that a heavy slow expanding bullet tends to put animals down with much less travel after hit.

    But regardless of which school of thought you follow, a poor hit will likely result in game moving off further distances. It always comes down to shot placement.
     
  22. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Exactly what H&H said, the high shoulder breaks both shoulders, clips a bunch of blood vessels, can clip the top of the lungs, and usually puts them on the ground in an extreme hurry. It is a high probability shot because if you miss a little forward you are into the spinal portion of the neck, if you miss a little high you break the spine, if you are a little back you are into the high lung area, if you are a little low you are in the lung/heart area.

    The high shoulder shot will cost you a pound or two of ground, but the OP specifically wants the deer to hit the deck with a minimum of tracking, and the high shoulder shot definitely delivers on that front.

    No one recommended the high shoulder shot for bow hunting, it is a rifle only shot that breaks a fair amount of bone.

    H&H's picture is better representation than the one I pirated.
     
  23. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    Absolutely incorrect STW. It's been proven time and again that there is no such thing as a bullet that won't deflect. Even big slow square nosed heavy caliber bullets deflect if they encounter even a small obstical enroute to target.

    As mentioned above I've personally witnessed several critters live a long time with a damaged liver. My question to you is how exactly do you take a liver shot? The liver is fairly flat and lies up against the diaphragm. Do you wait until the animal is quartering away? If you hit the liver broadside how are you not getting kidneys and or gut? If you are in fact getting rapid kills with a side liver shot I'm betting that you've also cut the abdominal aorta. In any case this sounds like a seriously risky shot.
     
  24. Bullseye

    Bullseye Member

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    Well, thanks for the lively responses and votes.
    Looks like I have been taking the .270 Win justified in the past by the votes.

    I did kill a doe with the 45-70 once and the heart was mush but it managed to run about 35 yds in a big U turn and it lay there a bit in it's last clouds of breaths. Seemed like forever to me but it probably happened rather quickly for her.
    I can quickly recall two neck shots with the .270 where they dropped within a few feet of getting shot.
    So far, I am now leaning toward the .270 once again.
    I never thought about that triangle area, I always shot for the heart or neck bone. I have been lucky guesstimating the POI for the neck bone thus far.
    My health won't allow me to do much strenuous lifting, dragging, pulling, hiking, etc. Besides being a pansy physically myself anymore with my breathing problems, I am also not one for having a critter suffer.

    I've seen some pretty sad looking gut shots and blown off legs in my day but not by me.
    If I'm not sure, I don't wing shots at deer.
    Did I mention I have a .405 Winchester? LOL :uhoh:
     
  25. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I normally take the classic "just behind the shoulder shot", and I generally recover the deer no further than 50 yards away, usually less. Longest runner was about 100 yards. I'll take the neck shot when that is all that is available, or when I'm running out of daylight (and only when I know I can pull it off). Every time I hit one in the neck, it was DRT. I hunt mostly with 243, Winchester power points. Occasionally with 223, Hornady 75 grain. If I'm in a stable position and everything else is reasonably optimum, I'd push either of these out to 300 yards distance. Haven't lost one yet.
     
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