Why are gun owners such pessimists????

[Correia]

Topgun, how in the world is granting shall issue CCW in 35 states a ploy of the antis to rile us up and THEN take our guns? How does that possibly make any sense at all? I know lets create a massive voting block of people who care enough about the issue to go through the process to actually carry a gun, and THEN confiscate their handguns? Huh?

As for the army, get to know some people in the army. Frankly I'm not to worried about the armed forces of the United States of America declaring war on the people.

I'm getting sick and tired of this whining BS.

If you think the battle is lost, shut the heck up, bury your guns in the back yard, and quit whining to the rest of us who still give a crap. Self defeatism on our side is the antis best weapon.

Get to know your local reps. You will be amazed at how much clout single individuals who actually care enough to speak with their state reps have. Work to pass pro freedom laws in your own state. Volunteer to help pro freedome candidates. Take new people shooting. Every person who thinks shooting is fun and normal is going to be one more person who won't vote against us.

It took us generations to get into this mess, we aren't going to get out by waving a magic wand. It is going to take work and dedication. Complaining to the choir and sitting around the gun store moping isn't going to change anything.

We are in a war of perceptions and culture. We are going to win.

 

[Majic]

It took us generations to get into this mess, we aren't going to get out by waving a magic wand. It is going to take work and dedication.

We are in a war of perceptions and culture. We are going to win.

I'm neither whinning or complaining, but you are right. We are in a war and it took several generations to get to this point. This war hasn't just started nor has it not been fought from the onset. We have though been losing from the first battle. There have been those before us fighting the battles as there are those today, but the fact is we are not winning. That is what has to be changed and no one has yet to come up with a workable solution.

How does it make sense for the anti to use our voting strength against us? Easy, just look at what they just did. They knew we wanted the AWB to sunset, so they attached an anti clause to the immunity bill (which we also wanted) and made us choose. The AWB has a chance to die out now, but the manufactors have the door open for massive lawsuiits. Which could mean we could have all the hi-caps we want, but there maybe no one around to make them. They have the advantage and we can't go bill for bill with them. We need to take the initutive and use their game against them or they will continue use the same procedure. We need to make up ground, not merely just hold our own.

 

[BluesBear]

Dealing with the Government is like gambling at a Casino.
Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but the odds are ALWAYS in favor of the house. Because THEY have structured it that way. And everytime they find something that mught upset the balance of power they have, they change it to keep it in their favor.

 

[Topgun]

Correia....your answer is typical of a gun person.

Confrontational and lacking in realization of facts.

CARS were designed to meet pollution standards. The standards were CHANGED and those cars can no longer be registered ....or....driven.

Yes, this is a California law. California laws are models for other states.

Guns (as long as gun supporters are not STRATEGISTS) are going to be gone within 30-40 years.

Call it whining. It's FACT.

Great. You got "shall issue." You also had 4th amendment protection against illegal search and seizure until 9/11.

And you still can't have the Thompson you could have in 1932.

Guns are easy to make evil. Gun enthusiasts......who should be our allies... are the ones who take em to school and shoot up the campus.

"The suspects have been gun collectors ....have shown interest in guns.... have been avid hunters....etc. ad nauseum."

What SHOULD be enthusiastic young hunters........turn to crazies....(cuz it's easier to be crazy than to find a place to hunt) ..... and turn our own cause against us.

We are LOSING and we KNOW it. OTHER .....than your vaunted "shall issue" argument (easily converted to registration and more regulation and finally banning of the instrument).....WHAT ...... gun is easier to buy than it was 50 years ago?

Don't tell me about "whining BS."

The MAJORITY of gun owners are either weak sisters or uninvolved.

A "force majeur" in the loss of our rights.

AND ...... not just ....gun....rights.

 

[cooter]

well it dont take alot of looking around ,,,

to get pessimistic,,,have never seen any rights given back once taken by the govment bunch, as to the CCW, well in one way, Im glad its growing,,on the flip side,,remember the govment bunch at the stroke of a pen can nullify CCW too, also they now have a list of dedicated gun owners to start with,,not mentioning hunting licences ect and other means,,to work from if they ever decide to try and come after the gun owners,,(and yes I beleive we will see it,,with the right dipsticks in office, just dont know what time period,could be another 50 yrs who knows)

I consider my self a realist,,not pessi, or opti,,

when I can show fellow gun owners the results of the voting that went on this week, and show them how our senator for our area voted,,most would not believe he voted like he did,,and started making excuses,,for his antigun voting,,:banghead: with idiots like that, I see, ,,,we WILL loose the quote battle ,cause the majority of gun owners are really dumber than a box of rocks,,! :banghead:

 

[Topgun]

I think our problem is

that we are all finally "realizing" what we have lost. And not just in the 2nd amendment arena.

The loss of Liberty in all areas is immense.

And we, as.....GUN.....owners, HATE that. And are helpless facing the juggernaut of "liberal" mindset that our poor kids have had crammed down their poor ignorant throats.

(I hate the word "liberal" applied to the gun grabbers as a TRUE liberal would welcome the diversity of gun/no gun as simply ....choices."

Correia, I apologize for singling you out as this problem has many solutions but I fear that none of them will see the light of day as far as our rights go.

As an example, we are.....again......faced with a couple boobs as presidential candidates and will be again forced to choose "lessers" of two evils.

It's a shame that our country has declined to this point.

 

[Barbara]

I think we're our own worst enemy..people who value freedom are individualists who don't like the hassles involved in dealing with the people who make the laws, so they avoid it until things get down to the wire..when the truth is that those laws are carved out long before the NRA sends out an alert. Those laws begin to be made when we elect someone to the local school board, who eventually decides to run for a state representative seat, and later runs for their state Senate seat, and then eventually has to make a decision about what way to vote on something like the AWB..it's a process..and gun owners tend not to get involved in the early stages, when it matters. 80 million gun owners and try to get more than one to show up to testify about something in the legislature..which any one of us can do..it's our legal right to approach our government officials and have them listen to us..but too many people don't take advantage of that.

I think we've had a few good years..and I've seen a lot of people relax when we should have been hitting hard in defense of our rights..now, I think we're facing a bit of a turn around and we'll begin to have to fight again, especially if Kerry wins. Things are cyclical like that and I only hope we don't lose more ground than we've gained.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

hillbilly, there are many reasons. Some are valid and some seem pathological.

Some of the gun folks indeed do have learned helplessness as noted above. Surprisingly, this is a victim mentality. This is surprising as many of up keep guns for the very purpose to hopefully keep from being victims.

Some gun folks are gunples. Gunples are gun-sheep-people and are the mindless gun toting versions of sheeple, but they think they are wolves because they have guns. These folks need leadership and a sense of belonging and so they follow whatever leaders they think are saying or doing the right things, only gunples don't actually evaluate whether or not the leader words or directions are correct. If the leader is a pessimist, then there will be a following of pessimists.

Many realize that gun right have degraded over time and have the very valid concern that it will continue. Some take this to huge extremes and cry wolf when rights of gun owners in OTHER COUNTRIES are infringed as if what happens in another country dictates what happens in the US.

For some, it is a survival perspective. Knowing that bad things can and do happen and so they assume bad things are going to happen to them. A lot of the legal pessimism goes hand-in-hand with the whole survivalist aspects of SHTF scenarios.

Whether these folks are really pessimists or just outright paranoid people may be a fine line. There is nothing wrong with a little pessimism or paranoia, but when taken to extremes, it is dangerous.

 

[Correia]

Topgun, I don't feel singled out. I know plenty of people just like me who haven't given up yet. Maybe it is because I live in a state that doesn't suck when it comes to the RKBA. This session we defeated several anti bills, and passed one very good pro bill.

As for confiscating all guns with the stroke of a pen, I don't know about you, but I imagine that there would be a shortage of confiscators about a week into it.

If you honestly really in your heart believe that all is lost, and all is hopeless, and we have lost every battle, and will lose every battle, what is the point?

If you feel that way. Fine. Good for you.

As for me, I'm going to keep doing everything that I can to defend my rights. That is all I can say.

 

[Oleg Volk]

You think you are singled out by various licenses and registrations? Fair enough. Now think of what it is like to be an anti politician, whose name AND face are well known to many thousands of people, some of which are perfectly able and willing to assassinate it for cause. If anything, our opponents ought to realize that they can succeed so well so fast they'd spark and insurgency...and a single opponent with the basic knowledge of chemistry and electronics could ruin their day with a remote-controlled faugass.

 

[Moparmike]

and a single opponent with the basic knowledge of chemistry and electronics could ruin their day with a remote-controlled faugass.

I am not sure I understand.

 

[Mark Tyson]

I think he means "Fougasse", an improvised incendiary device using thickened jet fuel or gasoline.