natedog
Member
why aren't black talons being produced anymore?
Why aren't Black Talon's being produced anymore?
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Wildalaska
member
Because Winchester hired really poor marketing people 
Bob Thompson
Member
Black talons are now being sold as Fail safe bullets. Basically the same bullet with a new name to appease the antis.
Dan Shapiro
Member
They pulled it off of shelves because of some stupid political and media flack. 
Some guy is selling a lot in the classified section.
There is better ammo out there but the evil factor of BT brings in the $$ still.
Some guy is selling a lot in the classified section.There is better ammo out there but the evil factor of BT brings in the $$ still.
Due to liability issues and harassment from the blissninnies they dropped the name.
The round is still available in its LEO only format as the Ranger T IIRC. I think they made some changes to it as well but not sure on that. About the only way a non LEO can get them is to buy them on Gunbroker, or if the ammo guy at the gunshow has some surplus lying around. You can find it, but it's expensive.
The round is still available in its LEO only format as the Ranger T IIRC. I think they made some changes to it as well but not sure on that. About the only way a non LEO can get them is to buy them on Gunbroker, or if the ammo guy at the gunshow has some surplus lying around. You can find it, but it's expensive.
Mike Irwin
Member
Back when Winchester was first hitting the streets with these, I had a long conversation with their Director of Media Relations, or whatever his title was. Can't remember his name, but I'm pretty certain he's retired now.
I told him that the name was going to blow up on the company, and it really should be named something else.
He sort of poo-poohed my comments, and we went on from there.
About a year later, though, Winchester was embroiled in a HUGE media controversy -- claims of corporate racism, the whole 9 yards.
Their being stuck in the heartlands, away from the political environment of the East Coast, meant that they couldn't imagine the potential controversy that could be raised.
I told him that the name was going to blow up on the company, and it really should be named something else.
He sort of poo-poohed my comments, and we went on from there.
About a year later, though, Winchester was embroiled in a HUGE media controversy -- claims of corporate racism, the whole 9 yards.
Their being stuck in the heartlands, away from the political environment of the East Coast, meant that they couldn't imagine the potential controversy that could be raised.
Hey, Mike I!
I remember that Richard Davis of Second Chance told us that he tried to tell them the same thing as soon as he heard about the name they'd chosen too--he had plenty of dialogue with them over the years because they were a big sponsor of his Bowling Pin Match. His warning fell on deaf ears too I guess....
I remember that Richard Davis of Second Chance told us that he tried to tell them the same thing as soon as he heard about the name they'd chosen too--he had plenty of dialogue with them over the years because they were a big sponsor of his Bowling Pin Match. His warning fell on deaf ears too I guess....
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Gian Ferri walked into 101 California (San Francisco) and blasted a law office. Killed or wounded a couple of attys, some law clerks, secretaries, paralegals and a librarian. In the survivor suit that followed, to avoid being named as a co-defendant, Winchester agreed to discontinue distribution of Black Talon from the civilian market. It's the liability & fear of it that resulted in Black Talon being yanked.
Mike Irwin
Member
Brian,
I'd never heard that about Davis, but I'm not surprised at all.
I'd never heard that about Davis, but I'm not surprised at all.
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have any of you heard the one about winchester signing of on pulling black talons off the market in exchange for a halt in the importation of cheap chinese surplus 7.62x39mm FMJ rounds (remember when $1.99/20 was a great deal) ?
it is now all just media hype. it is good ammo but certainly not worth an additional premium over any other premium SD ammo
it is now all just media hype. it is good ammo but certainly not worth an additional premium over any other premium SD ammo
4thHorseman
Member
If memeory serves me, my recollection, "60 Minutes" or a similiar program ran an article on how cruel the bullet was. How it sliced through a body and the "Talons" opened up and caused more harm. In reality, it is no more deadlier than other popular brands. Also, the name, as someone has already stated, caused some problems with the anti's and gave them some fuel. So Winchester pulled them.
Dennis Olson
Member
IIRC, what really made Winchester fold was the fact that they had some really juicy gooberment contracts at the time, and did NOT want those threatened. So they pulled a Slick & Weasel...
The demise of the 7.62x39 FMJ steel-core rounds...
Was from another fiasco involving Olympic Arms and their attempt to market a 7.62x39 AR-15 pistol, against the protests of the gun industry. They displayed a few, and, voila'! ATF banned the import of the ammo, since there was now a commercially available autopistol capable of firing AP rifle ammo. To this day, I don't think Olympic Arms has ever fessed up to their responsibility for this faux pas.
Was from another fiasco involving Olympic Arms and their attempt to market a 7.62x39 AR-15 pistol, against the protests of the gun industry. They displayed a few, and, voila'! ATF banned the import of the ammo, since there was now a commercially available autopistol capable of firing AP rifle ammo. To this day, I don't think Olympic Arms has ever fessed up to their responsibility for this faux pas.
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And what of the Thompson Center? I remember the confusion in CA about the sale of ammunition and the clerk would ask, "Is it for rifle or handgun?" Of course we'd respond, "rifle" and let it go at that. They would otherwise take down info if it was for handgun ammo.
Thompson Center was one of the more vocal critics...
of Olympic Arms' intent to produce that 7.62x39 AR-15 pistol. Apparently, the ATF had no real problems with the few Contenders out there chambered for the rifle rounds. Evidently the Contender was not the handgun of choice for the criminal element. (Like there is a horse of that color) Just think, a drive-by with a .45-70 Contender would probably hurt the gangbanger just as badly as his intended target.
of Olympic Arms' intent to produce that 7.62x39 AR-15 pistol. Apparently, the ATF had no real problems with the few Contenders out there chambered for the rifle rounds. Evidently the Contender was not the handgun of choice for the criminal element. (Like there is a horse of that color) Just think, a drive-by with a .45-70 Contender would probably hurt the gangbanger just as badly as his intended target.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
"Politically InCorrect"- as per Commie Klinton!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
1goodshot
Member
Didnt you know that all you have to do is tell people your gun is loaded with black talons and they drop dead, thats why the government doesnt want use to use them.
The White Flyer
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It made the natives restless.
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