Why Aren't There More Single Stacks?

[OregonJohnny]

There was a recent thread started in the General Handgun forum about your "dream" carry gun. I noticed that along with the many 1911s listed, a lot of people wish there were more single stack designs out there. Personally, my dream carry gun is something along the lines of the Springfield EMP 9mm or if I could convince Beretta to make something, it would be the 85FS Cheetah (the single stack model) but chambered in 9mm.

Is magazine capacity so much of a selling point that manufacturers don't see a need or a market for ultra-thin single stacks? I'll bet if Glock or Beretta or Springfield made a modern ultra-thin, compact single stack 9mm, they'd sell like hot cakes. I know Kahr makes a few compact single stacks, but what gives from the big names?

Anybody else lust for a 9mm single stack striker-fired polymer from one of the "big" manufacturers? Or does this exist (Kahr aside) and I just haven't seen it?

 

[peacemaker45]

Anybody else lust for a 9mm single stack striker-fired polymer from one of the "big" manufacturers? Or does this exist (Kahr aside) and I just haven't seen it?

Nope, not me. I'd probably have said yes if you hadn't specified polymer and striker fired. One of my favorite handguns of all time is the Colt Lightweight Commander in .38 Super. What's not to love? 1911 ergos, single action trigger, light weight, lighter recoil than comparable guns in .45, plenty of horsepower, 10+1, etc.

~~~Mat

 

[BlindJustice]

Single stack besides 1911 and scaled down Springer EMP

uhhh dh....

SIg P239 8 rds + 1 as well as having a 10 rd extended mag available.

and the older SIg P6/225 german police surplus

Question is the discontinueed Sig 228 a single stack?

Luger p{08 & Walther P-38 were single stacks

Several of the All metal S&W 9MMx19s were single stacks and
in the current offereings try the
S&W 908

Model: 908
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 8+1 Rounds
Barrel Length: 3 1/2"
Front Sight: Dot Front Sight
Rear Sight: Fixed
Grip: Plastic Grip
External Safety: N/A
Frame: Small
Finish: Blue / Black
Overall Length: 6 7/8"
Material: Alloy
Weight Empty: 24 oz.


Hey dang, I think you are talking me into another smith

Randall

 

[BullfrogKen]

There are some out there. The reason there are not more is that the market won't bear it. I heard Glock was making a single stack; am I wrong?


High mag capacity is the "in" thing. That's just the way the market goes.

 

[bigmike45]

Kel-Tec PF-9 & Taurus PT-111 are a few that come to mind.

 

[ugaarguy]

Question is the discontinueed Sig 228 a single stack?

The P228 is a double stack.

I heard Glock was making a single stack; am I wrong?

They are, the model 36, which is a 6 round single stack in .45 ACP. Given the Glock 37's double stack capacity of 10 rounds of 45 GAP, I'm of the opinion that the 37 should have been a scaled up 36, carrying 8 or 9 rounds 45 ACP in a single stack mag.

 

[OregonJohnny]

Took a look at the S&W 908. Is it really thin? Like 1911 thin? I know Kel-Tec, Kahr, Rohrbaugh, and some other small companies make some single stack 9mm guns, but where is Ruger, Beretta, Glock, Springfield, etc?

So Sig makes the 239. I remember looking at that, but the dimension listed make it look almost as wide as a 226. Am I wrong? I want ULTRA-THIN. Think Springfield EMP 9mm with the thinnest grip panels you can possible fit on it. I don't know, I'm just tired of trying to carry a double stack IWB. Uncomfortable!

 

[MK11]

How about the new Walther PPS? I've heard that's so thin it can be hard to shoot.

The P239 may be a little chunky compared to a Kahr or that new Walther but it's nothing like hauling around a P226. I know, I've got both and carried both.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Yeah, double-stacks can be quite uncomfortable worn in IWB holsters.

You'll find the Sig 239 and 225, or even the Glock single stack won't be all that much more comfortable.


The problem isn't so much the grip. It's the portion of the gun you're sticking down your pants - the slide. Glocks, Sigs, and nearly any modern design semi-auto uses external locking lugs. That design necessitates a thicker slide to get enough bearing surface on the lugs.

1911's and the Browning Hi-Power have internal locking lugs. Their slides are much thinner, and much more comfortable when you shove it down your pants.

Don't overlook the Hi-Power. Its a staggered column magazine, but it's still compact and comfortable for concealment.

 

[KBintheSLC]

If Glock made a single stack, ultra thin 9mm that held at least 7 in the mag, I'd be in line to buy. I would sort of suck to not have compatibility with all of my 9mm mags though. I looked at Kahr, but they are overpriced and their QC is inconsistent.
I also have a Sig P239 that is a beautiful pistol... Unfortunately, the wife liked it so much, she confiscated it and now carries it daily.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Isn't the Browning BDM 9mm a single stack? Nice capacity w/slimness.

 

[BlindJustice]

OregonJohnny



1911 Goverment Model .45 ACP
SA Single Stack 8 rds mags avail.
Overall Width : 1.37" - Sig 1911
Overall Height:: 5.5"
Overall Length: 8.7"
Weight Empty: 39 oz

CZ 75B 9mm Luger
DA/SA Double Stack 16 rds
Overall Width : 1.4"
Overall Height:: 5.4
Overall Length: 8.1"
Barrel Length: 4.9"
Weight Empty: 35.2 oz

FYI - Sig P226 4.4" Bbl. 1.5" Width

Sig P239 9mm Luger
DA/SA 8 rd mag, & 10 rd w/grip extension. on mag
Overall Width: 1.2"
Overall Height:: 5.1"
Overall Length: 6.6"
Weight Empty: 27.5

S&W 908
Overall Width: 1.?
Overall Height:: ? looks close to P239
Overall Length: ?
Barrel Length: 3.5"
Weight Empty: 24.0

I'd have to look up the width of the SA EMP but it's 1.2 or smaller

ANd a review of the S&W 908
which also gives a history of

S&W 39 - 1955 then 39-2 w/fixes to problems

S&W 3913 &
S&W 3913 LS Lady Smith
Short Bbl'd 3.5" Bbl. version of 39-2

S&W 908 Economy version of 3913
at 30% less, the 908S is Stainless Steel

http://www.firearmsinstitute.com/smith_wesson_908.htm

Randall

 

[jocko]

kahr

makes the most complete line of single stack ccw guns on the market. 9mm, 40cal. 45 cal. and soon to be 380. Stainless steel versions to polymer/stainless steel versions.

 

[unisonic12]

disregard

 

[FMJMIKE]

I am happy with my Glock G-19 with 15 rounds. It is comforting to have 15 rounds on tap. It isn't hard to conceal........... Why would I want a single stack mag ???

 

[KegCommando]

In answer to why you don't see many out there, I think it is because the manufacturers don't really look at the CCW market.

I believe they have their eyes more on the LEO/military prize.

 

[bleedingshrimp]

Ruger makes the SR-9. It's a good gun...trigger is too heavy for my taste.

Edit: It's not a single stack....really thin double stack.

 

[buenhec]

After these elections, Im sure we will be seeing less and less doublestacks.

 

[IdahoLT1]

Kahrs are awesome firearms. I paid $405 after 6% sales tax for my NIB CW9. I hope thats not too "overpriced"?

 

[Kind of Blued]

I think it does run somewhat parallel to politics.

Kahr wouldn't be selling a lot of guns if concealed carry wasn't so popular.

Springfield wouldn't have made the XDm if it was 2000, nor would CZ have made the SP-01 Phantom and Shadow.

I'd love a "semi-staggered" lightweight commander in 9x23 or even 10mm. Hell, if you can make the 1911 slide that thin for a .45, you should be able to make a 9x23 semi-staggered Commander with >10 rounds and an even THINNER slide.

 

[Eightball]

I think there'd be a bigger market for single stacks if manufacturers could master making thin slides and such to go with it. For the "thin" of the Kahr series, I'm fairly certain that the ratio of bore diameter/slide width of those doesn't quite stack up to that of the 1911 or BHP, or even a Kel-Tec P3AT.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Pilot]

if I could convince Beretta to make something, it would be the 85FS Cheetah (the single stack model) but chambered in 9mm.

I've thought this also. I often carry my M85FS as a primary, but would be more comfortable if it were in 9MM instead of .380. I have two HK P7's a P7M8 and PSP which I also carry often, but they are heavy and if you look at the profiles my CZ-75D PCR is about the same and carries twice the ammo. THe M85FS is slim and light because its a blow back. 9MM is not conducive to the blow back action.

 

[lechiffre]

Isn't the Browning BDM 9mm a single stack? Nice capacity w/slimness.

yes and no

Nice capacity w/slimness.

yes

Isn't the Browning BDM 9mm a single stack?

no

 

[jlh26oo]

I think it's because manufacturers are coming out with 2x and staggered stacks that are getting more and more lean and svelte. Then to some shooters who end up with a more filling grip surrounding their single stacks anyways, it's a wash but that's J.M.O. and Y.M.M.V.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Just a side note, I've always considered the SHAPE of the grip to mean much more in the way of comfort than the width or length (front to back).

When you make a gripping motion with your hand, what shape is it?

Rectangular like a Glock? Or ovalic like a 1911?

I think if somebody made a double-stack pistol that remained as diminuitive as possible in the grip, but actually controured the edges to make the overall shape ovalic, it would be much more comfortable.

Anybody agree?