Why do so many people complain about magazine disconnects?

[stchman]

Hello all.

I have several friends that complain about magazine disconnects.

I ask them do you ever fire the pistol without a magazine? No, they say. They just find it annoying.

My SR9 has one, but it is a non factor for me. I never inted to fire the pistol without a mag in place.

There are lots of HOW-TOs to remove/disable the disconnect. I firmly believe that monkeying around will only cause problems. Not to mention if you ever had to use your firearm in a home defense situation the legal eagles would probably try to make something of it saying that you used a "modified" weapon.

People that know a lot more about guns designed and built my firearms. Who am I to make changes?

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

What if you want to get some dry fire practice? You're going to have to leave a magazine in it which 1) is asking for something unsafe to occur and 2) annoying locks the slide back every time you rack the gun. Its also a pain when function testing the gun after reassembling it, and also brings up my first point from before.

 

[NGIB]

They are really annoying on Ruger .22s as you have to move the hammer to reassemble.

If guns without them are OK, why does any gun need one?

 

[OregonJohnny]

One possible imagined scenario would be:

You have a firearm with a magazine disconnect. You have to use the firearm in a life-threatening defense situation. You have a round chambered and a loaded magazine inserted. You come under heavy stress and/or close contact with your attacker and somehow accidentally hit the mag release. Your chambered ready-to-fire gun is now a club. Wouldn't you want that 1 round in the chamber to be available even if your mag drops out?

 

[stchman]

My view is if you do not like how a gun was designed don't buy it. Buying it and modifying it is certainly going to make your rule #1 come into effect.

 

[stchman]

Don't buy that particular weapon. Modifying a firearm to "improve" it is most certainly going to cause more problems than what you are trying to fix.

Firearm modification IMO should be done by experts. I clean and maintain my firearms, but would never want to do any modifications.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

If guns without them are OK, why does any gun need one?

It's a good advantage to have if your weapon is likely to be involved in a retention situation such as might be faced by law enforcement or security. It's not likely to be significant for a concealed carry or self defense weapon.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

My view is if you do not like how a gun was designed don't buy it. Buying it and modifying it is certainly going to make your rule #1 come into effect.

Don't buy that particular weapon. Modifying a firearm to "improve" it is most certainly going to cause more problems than what you are trying to fix.

There's no "modification" involved in disabling any magazine safety I'm aware of. In the Bersa Thunder and BHP, its a simple matter of disassembling the gun and reassembling it without the magazine disconnect parts. On these guns at least it most certainly will NOT cause more problems than you are trying to fix. Nothing changes about the operation of the gun except its ability to fire without a magazine. Its not going to start going off on its own or doubling or something like that. Its really not much if at all different from removing the lock flag from new S&W revolvers.

 

[rcmodel]

Probably way more officers have been saved by having a gun not be able to fire without a magazine, then have been lost by not being able to fire the gun without a magazine.

The Illinois State Police had several recorded instances of struggles where the cop was able to hit the mag release before losing his gun to a wacko in the first few years after they adopted the first S&W 39/59 pistols used in law enforcement.

rc

 

[bigfatdave]

It's a good advantage to have if your weapon is likely to be involved in a retention situation such as might be faced by law enforcement or security. It's not likely to be significant for a concealed carry or self defense weapon.

Preventing an attacker taking your gun is fairly simple. Generally there is a little lever on the underside designed to help in such situations. Perhaps police/security might need to hand over a non-functional gun occasionally while going for a backup weapon.

Personally, I can't imagine a situation when I have my CC pistol out already, someone is trying to wrest it from me, and my response would be to drop the mag. If in a retention situation, I'm shooting and retreating, not giving up a gun with ammo in it regardless of the existence of a mag interlock (it isn't a safety, it is an interlock).

Putting a feature like a mag interlock on a range/varmint gun like a .22 is beyond silly, but makers do so to appease the CA market and a few others that mandate the mag interlock.
If you don't want one, don't buy it, and feel free to mail the maker telling them so. If you own a firearm with a mag interlock and you get fed up with it, make sure you can remove it without compromising reliability or function. The Ruger M.I., for example, actually adds steps to the assembly/strip , which adds the possibility of introducing live ammo the the firearm when function testing or checking it clear. I really can't picture a situation when removing the mag would be the best way to make a Ruger mkIII safe ... the same goes for the silly key locks.

 

[rbernie]

The design of the magazine interconnect on the BHP makes the trigger pull horrendous. That alone is reason, on that pistol, not to have it.

In general, unless I'm worried about retention issues (which I am not) - it's just one more thing to potentially go wrong at the wrong moment.

 

[mattw]

In certain models removing the magazine disconnect improves trigger pull.

 

[doubs43]

You ask "why" and then want to argue when someone gives an answer? Why not just say that YOU like the mag disconnect and anyone who doesn't is wrong? OTOH, you could acknowledge that it's an OPINION on the part of everyone whether it's pro or con. It's also an OPINION that guns shouldn't be modified. Not everyone agrees.

IMO mag disconnects are the answer to a non-existent problem. I once owned an Astra 600 that had a thumb safety, a grip safety and a mag disconnect. The trigger was so hard that it was almost a 4th safety. I wish I still owned it because they've become a much sought after collector's gun but as a shooter it was almost too safe.

I don't like mag disconnects, I've never liked them and I see no chance that I ever will. That's MY opinion.

 

[Gary G23]

If you shoot competitively you know they are a pain in the butt. After every stage you have to unload and show clear, and then drop the hammer/striker on an empty chamber. If you have a mag disconnect you have to carry an empty magazine, let the safety officer examine the mag to make sure it is empty, insert the mag then pull the trigger, and then remove the mag. Too much hassle.

 

[gga357]

Agree with others. It affects trigger pull, adds more unnecessary parts that might malfunction. Also the reason I don't like grip safeties, unnecessary and get in the way. I guess since many of us change parts on our guns already (barrels, triggers, springs, hammers, sears) it is a matter of personal preference.

 

[stchman]

You ask "why" and then want to argue when someone gives an answer? Why not just say that YOU like the mag disconnect and anyone who doesn't is wrong? OTOH, you could acknowledge that it's an OPINION on the part of everyone whether it's pro or con. It's also an OPINION that guns shouldn't be modified. Not everyone agrees.

IMO mag disconnects are the answer to a non-existent problem. I once owned an Astra 600 that had a thumb safety, a grip safety and a mag disconnect. The trigger was so hard that it was almost a 4th safety. I wish I still owned it because they've become a much sought after collector's gun but as a shooter it was almost too safe.

I don't like mag disconnects, I've never liked them and I see no chance that I ever will. That's MY opinion.

There is nothing in my replies that said I "like" mag disconnects.

My SR9 has one, if it did not have one I would like my SR9 the exact same.

My point is that I feel that while it is un-necessary it does not affect my enjoyment in shooting my SR9. I actually think the trigger pull on my SR9 is really nice.

I am just amazed at how badly people hate them. I would rather have a few useless features that satisfy the liberal anti-gunners than have them all over our back.

I personally think safeties on DA pistols and revolvers are completely worthless but you hear people preach about them. Safeties are only needed on SA only and striker fire without a Glock style trigger.

There are plenty more silly laws like 10 round mags and some local municipalities requiring you to use the retarded gun padlock while transporting a firearm.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I would love a mag disconnect.

THe problem is, everyone assumes they're John Rambo or Gecko45, Mall Ninja Extraordinare. What if you are in a threatening situation and DON'T have the upper hand? What if your awesome uber-tactical CCW training is no match for your attacker? I can think of plenty of situations where you might be in a struggle like rolling on the floor with your attacker and the best thing you could do is hit the mag release and remove the gun from the equation.

 

[rbernie]

I would rather have a few useless features that satisfy the liberal anti-gunners than have them all over our back.

But it doesn't. They want us to have no guns, but will settle for us having unloaded guns locked away and useless. They don't give a rats patootie about mag interconnects. That's simply a non-starter of an defense of the safeties.

There are plenty more silly laws like 10 round mags and some local municipalities requiring you to use the retarded gun padlock while transporting a firearm.

None of which were prevented or precluded by the presence of mag interconnect safeties, the technology for which predates these laws by many many decades.

See the point?

I have at least six pistols with mag interconnect safeties, all intact. I do not hate them. But I am under no delusion that they serve any value to me functionally (since I am not a LEO), nor that they serve any value in preserving my RKBA.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

A few of the police officers I know all like the mag disconnect. I didn't understand its usefulness until talking with them. Keep in mind guns like the SR9 are targeted not only to civilians but also to law enforcement.

 

[Mike J]

I don't own a gun with a magazine disconnect safety, however from what I have read over at rugerforum.com the reason many on that forum don't care for them is the design Ruger uses. If the trigger is pulled without a magazine in place it can damage the firearm. If you go in a gunshop & ask to dryfire a centerfire the counterhelp will usually oblige you. If the salesperson hasn't studied up on that particular firearm & allows people to dryfire with the magazine out-then you walk in & purchase the gun on display you may very well be purchasing a damaged gun. I seem to remember Ruger saying when they first released the SR-9 that if someone didn't like the mag disconnect they could just remove it. Of course there are some who say if you modify a gun then use it in self defense it may be used against you by the prosecution in court. I think I'd rather just not have one & keep my life simpler-but even so I still want a P-345 in spite of that & the ILS.

 

[Prince Yamato]

From a financial stand-point, you are probably being "charged" for parts that you do not use and/or want.

 

[jocko]

all above are good reason to do and not to do. If you not a LEO and want a home gun basicaly ready to go. one in thepipe and the magazine somewhere else will keep it safe from your kids but still enable one to insert magazine and fire away. I have never heard of one failing but I ams ure it has happened to, as again it is mechanical and man made and both seem to be fu-k ups sometimes.

 

[Tinpig]

The design of the magazine interconnect on the BHP makes the trigger pull horrendous. That alone is reason, on that pistol, not to have it.

I've heard that's so, but my '50s FN BHP has a smooth and crisp trigger pull even with the disconnect.

When clearing or cleaning I do not like to use a magazine to lower the hammer. I find I can just get my finger far enough into the mag well to push the disconnect.

Tinpig

 

[markallen]

Murphy's Law. The more complicated, the more chance of something to go wrong.
If I have to pull, I want it to go bang.
In the case of the Ruger, I own a P345. How many times can you accidentaly drop the hammer with no mag, yeah I know, put a magazine in, and use snap caps. Use the decocker. But how many mistakes to break your firing pin, three, four? What happens if you need it and it breaks cause the night before, you dropped your magazine on the floor, and it bent the feed lip. even though upon visual inspection it looks ok, but in reality, its bent just enough not to allow the dis-connect to clear all the way?
Beside I can think of only two states that a magazine dis-connect is required.
If your home state doesn't require one, how can you be in trouble for something that's not required?
Ok Flame suit on

 

[Jim K]

The main objection is that if the magazine is lost, the gun is useless even as a single shot. Some police like the disconnect because they are trained to hit the magazine release if they think they are going to have the pistol taken from them. There are reports of officer's lives being saved because the bad guy couldn't get the officer's gun to fire. Pros and cons.

Jim