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Why do you guys do it???

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jimbo, May 11, 2004.

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  1. jimbo

    jimbo Member

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    I am sincerely confused by it.

    Like clockwork someone who hates guns will register and post the same day. You all will respond in good faith to the questions because, well probably because you are good guys and treat the new individual with respect and answer with sincerity.

    Now, these people nevers stay. They will post a few anti-gun questions and act like they truly want to learn to appreciate the perspective of those who cherish the 2nd Amendment, believe in the inalienable right to gun ownership and self-defense, and generally support conceal carry laws. But they are always hit-and-run artists who will be gone before the end of the month.

    They will never return to ask the attributes of Zeiss vs. Swarovski. They aren't going to request recommendations for loads for a 270 WSM or ask how your Kimber Gold Match stacks up with a Springfield Loaded.

    So I ask you all, honestly. Why do you answer? Why do you take these individuals seriously? Why do you attempt to educate these people?

    I understand the nobility of your effort to try to enlighten an anti-gun person to the history, necessity and benefits of gun ownership and use in its various forms. But I see it as an exercise in futility and it frustrates me to no end to see those of responding in good faith because I know you are just being toyed with when these persons in their flaming insincerity have absolute no interest in changing their attitudes to one of pro-gun.

    Indeed, I applaud your efforts to take an anti-gun friend to the range. I have heard of numerous successes converting friends and wives who were scared of guns, who become pro-gun. Please keep up the good work.

    But I cannot thing of one, singe individual in the history of this board or the Firing Line who came to the website hating guns and who's mind you opened simply by explaining why guns are good or why the 2nd Amendment is not obsolete just because we don't use muskets anymore.

    Oh, why, why, why, why, why? Please, somebody enlighten me.:banghead:
     
  2. Kodiak AK

    Kodiak AK Member

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    The truth will set you free...........
     
  3. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Actually, there have been some folks who've stopped by, questioned, and actually thought about the answers they received... It's been a while, and we've been inundated by trolls and folks from the Democratic Underground side of things, but there's always a good chance that someone will actually think.
     
  4. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    'Cause we like guns and we like to talk about guns. If somebody else doesn't, oh well, they don't have any power to take my guns and besides that's just more guns for me. :D

    If somebody who hates guns comes here to talk and we're civil and rational it just may plant a seed in that hoplophobe's head that gun owners are not the heartless child killers they've always heard about.

    It's a good thing. It's The High Road. :)
     
  5. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Optimism

    Some day we might convert one!

    Besides, some boards like the Democratic Underground won't allow someone of differing opinion to discuss on their board. This being The High Road, we'll take anyone and politely argue our point for as long as they are willing to stay.
     
  6. pax

    pax Member

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    Not for their sake.

    It's for the sake of the curious person who swings by because someone he knows suggested he might learn something here.

    It's for the sake of the skeptical-but-interested wife whose husband posts on THR -- and who won't talk about it in person with him, just in case it turns out he's right after all. ;)

    It's for the sake of my kids, who are getting old enough that their friends ask them similar questions and say similar things. What arguments shall I arm them with as they get ready to go out into the world?

    It's for the sake of folks like my dad, who isn't quite clear on what an "assault weapon" might be, but believes they should be outlawed. He might not ever surf past THR, but maybe I need to hone my arguments in writing here before I try them on him in person.

    And it's for the sake of the person who's been hanging out at THR for a couple months, posts rarely, and thinks we are all a bit too ... well, extreme ... about all this freedom stuff. They need to hear the discussion from the ground up -- and they aren't going to ask.

    That's why.

    pax
     
  7. Samurai Penguin

    Samurai Penguin Member

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    Why do we bother? Because we're taking The High Road.

    Most of these people probably came here expecting Billy Bob and Bubba in deep discussion of the fine points of shootin' Bud cans off their kids' heads("Now, don't move, there, Cooter Ray...!"). Instead, they see responsible, intelligent gun owners.

    Those who come to "toy with us" after reading through a good chunk of this site may never change their minds...but there are a lot of lurkers around...and their opinions may be greatly influenced by our actions. Those are the people we're really trying to convince, not those whose minds are closed, locked, sealed in concrete and buried under 100 feet of Siberian tundra. And if our polite, civil responses and willingness to give the benefit of the doubt change just one sheep into a free citizen..."it's all woooorrrrthh it!!" {/liberalwhine} ;)
     
  8. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    Guns N' Rosie

    Miss Demeanors


    Those are two reasons. . . . two antis who came to ask questions and leave, but didn't end up leaving. We don't see either one much anymore, but in Sandy's (Miss D) case that's because she is now a moderator at another pro-gun forum! She has also been a representative for Mothers' Arms and the Second Amendment Sisters, and a very good friend even though we don't get to talk much anymore.

    Come to think of it, I think I'll hop over to http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com and see what she's been doing lately. For those who don't know, FFF was essentially created so that people who don't like our relatively strict "On Topic" rules could have a place to hang out and discuss whatever they want. They talk about religion and other topics over there, along with stuff like cars and motorcycles. If you've ever wished THR or TFL had an "Off Topic" forum, check it out.

    Anyway, that's why you bother. Every once in awhile one will turn, and more importantly, you don't know who is reading the thread. You may never know how many minds you change--or who you give enough courage and enough facts to stand up for what they've already been thinking but were too afraid to say.
     
  9. Larry Ashcraft

    Larry Ashcraft Moderator Staff Member

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    WyldOne, where are you?
     
  10. jimbo

    jimbo Member

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    Pax,

    I like your answer.

    I had seen responding to these guys as an exercise in futility bordering on the insane. Preaching to the choir and little more. But your attitude has genuine value and just may help the occassional lurker who honestly hasn't made up his mind one way or the other. I'll shut-up now.:eek: :p

    All of you have brought up some fine points and I stand corrected.

    Gentlemen, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! You have more energy and optimism than I. And I applaud you.
     
  11. jimbo

    jimbo Member

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    Don and Larry,

    Thank you for examples of people who have helped educated themselves to the reality of gun ownership at THR. I appreciate your help.

    Jimbo
     
  12. Benjamin

    Benjamin Member

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    If not for the other reasons outlined above, it keeps us sharp.

    Best,

    -Ben
     
  13. Ben Shepherd

    Ben Shepherd Member

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    Pax posted the long term reasons why.

    The short term reason is because then I know I took an opportunity presented.

    For the mid term reasons see my thread in general discussion titled "Guys this is awesome, warm fuzzies guaranteed. Range day." The whole time I've been working here(several years) I've lived with the title "resident gun nut". But as you can see it's finally paying off. As a matter of fact everyone that I chat with at work regularly are now firmly involved in politics.
     
  14. gulogulo1970

    gulogulo1970 Member

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    Most of the anti's aren't stupid only ignorant or blinded by misguided preconceptions.

    So hitting them with the facts my at least swing them from an anti to maybe a middle of the road kind of person. Hey, you may win a convert over time. A lot of minds change over a life time.
     
  15. firearms_instructor

    firearms_instructor Member

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    Don Gwinn,

    Thank you SO MUCH for posting this:

    "Those are two reasons. . . . two antis who came to ask questions and leave, but didn't end up leaving. We don't see either one much anymore, but in Sandy's (Miss D) case that's because she is now a moderator at another pro-gun forum!"

    In my opinion, any BS anyone had to put up with from anti trolls was worth it, just to have one anti wind up moderating a pro-gun forum. That is so great. To paraphrase the antis, "If we save JUST ONE anti, it was worth it!"

    A book I like to recommend to women (anyone, actually) who are unsure about gun ownership is Armed and Female by Paxton Quigley. Paxton was an anti-gun activist until the night one of her friends got raped, and Paxton had to take her friend to the hospital and got to experience her friend's violation and grief firsthand. Something happened to Paxton that night... Paxton decided that there was NO WAY she was going to allow something like that to happen to her. Soon afterwards she happened to be tagging along with someone who was picking up a pistol from a gun shop, and Paxton started to see handguns in a whole new context. She ended up writing an excellent book on self-defense for women!
     
  16. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    quote:

    "Indeed, I applaud your efforts to take an anti-gun friend to the range. I have heard of numerous successes converting friends and wives who were scared of guns, who become pro-gun. Please keep up the good work".

    Almost answered your own question there !

    :D
     
  17. PromptCritical

    PromptCritical Member

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    I find threads started by antis to be helpful to me. The responses and links posted by the fine folks here at THR give me new ideas for ways to make antis and undecideds I meet to see the light, so to speak. If someone wants to know why I have this passion about firearms, I like to have something intelligent and thoughtful to tell them, instead of just "'cause guns are cool."
    In addition, I find that it is completely worth it if we can get just one person to see our side of the issue that they can't get just by going to school, or watching TV.
    I have lurked on DU, and I really don't like what I see there. And the assumption that they are all anti gun is somewhat wrong. I saw a thread there once about taking up arms for an out and out fight with conservatives. I have only one response to that: "Bring it on!"
     
  18. magsnubby

    magsnubby Member

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    Well we could just ignore 'em and hope they go away or we can take advantage of the oppertunity to educate a person who could be a fence sitter. Or we could just ignore them and let them go away thinking all guns owners are to stupid to give an intelligent argument. Either way we would be missing a good chance to educate a person. If we can sway one person our way it's worth it.,
     
  19. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    I answer politely because my grandmother taught me manners and I try to be friendly.


    Folks are usually just looking for answers. If I can help, I try. If they're not looking for answers and are trying to stir a stink, my grandmother also taught me about not messing with skunks.

    Regards,
    Rabbit.
     
  20. Zeke Menuar

    Zeke Menuar Member

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    IMHO, there is an undeserved, stereotypical view that all gun-owners are a cross between Rambo and Deliverance. A much of ignorant right-wing morons that will shoot anything in sight. That perception needs to be changed.
    By treating the anti's and the curious that are sincere in their inquiries with respect, gun-enthusiasts like ourselves can hopefully change minds and perceptions one person at a time.

    ZM
     
  21. Black92LX

    Black92LX Member

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    even if i only affect one person out of 1,000. i am still happy to do it.
     
  22. DMK

    DMK Member

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    What's the alternative? Blow off anybody who doesn't see the world exactly the same way we do?

    How do we know that they leave never to return? A large number of the members on this forum, as well as those who were members of TFL, hardly ever post. There are a lot of lurkers here, reading and absorbing technical and RKBA knowledge. Hopefully they distribute a little of it among others they have contact with in their life.
     
  23. MaterDei

    MaterDei Member

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    I work in a professional environment where most of those around me are at least as smart as I am. Even when we disagree, they usually have logical reasons for their takes on issues.

    I respond to the antis here on THR because it gives me a chance to debate idiots for a change. :D

    Just kidding,

    Michael
     
  24. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    For the most part ... even if ''they'' turn out to be trolling ...... it is essentially ''something we have to do''.

    There is way too much misunderstanding .... and emotional rhetoric from anti's .... a great many of whom if only encouraged to stop and think ..... may just find their ''logical self'' - (if it exists!!) ..... :p

    Now and again ... we do succeed I think and as I say ... it needs done .. we HAVE to bring the rationale and gun owner's ''raison d'etre'' to the forefront, at every opportunity.
     
  25. Shanghai McCoy

    Shanghai McCoy Member

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    Because being nice takes just as much time as being rude and has a much more pleasant aftertaste.
     
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